If they didn't tank, they wouldn't have ended up with a top 3 pick in a strong draft if they didn't tank
- PhillySportsGuy

The lottery is terrible. Leaves people to believe that it is fixed. I mean look in hockey. Chicago got Kane when Flyers had worst record. Chicago needed Kane because franchise was struggling. Penguins get crosby when it should hve been anaheim but Pens needed Crosby because Mario bought team out of Bankruptcy. Cavs keep getting first because Lebron left and they need a way to keep Kyrie Irving from bolting. I am not saying they are fixed but makes conspericies sound more logical.

Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense -- for them, and some fans, it does.

But personally, I think the entire drafting process is an abomination. Teams shouldn't be rewarded for being awful. All teams in the hopper, one ball picked until complete. That's your draft order.

That's just me. What, the Cavaliers have picked first three times in four years? Same with the Oilers?

Ridiculous, to me.
- AllInForFlyers

I agree with that. I've always wanted all non playoff teams to have the same shot at a top 3 pick.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. NBA made it that way. Sixers are just doing what they need to do to get better.

Anyway, I don't want umberger. This team needs more speed

Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense -- for them, and some fans, it does.

But personally, I think the entire drafting process is an abomination. Teams shouldn't be rewarded for being awful. Teams shouldn't be penalized for being good. All teams in the hopper, one ball picked until complete. That's your draft order.

That's just me. What, the Cavaliers have picked first three times in four years? Same with the Oilers?

Ridiculous, to me.
- AllInForFlyers

i agree with this 100%. the lottery is the nba & NHL leagues version of a welfare system.

The lottery is terrible. Leaves people to believe that it is fixed. I mean look in hockey. Chicago got Kane when Flyers had worst record. Chicago needed Kane because franchise was struggling. Penguins get crosby when it should hve been anaheim but Pens needed Crosby because Mario bought team out of Bankruptcy. Cavs keep getting first because Lebron left and they need a way to keep Kyrie Irving from bolting. I am not saying they are fixed but makes conspericies sound more logical.
- J35Bacher

The nba gave Cleveland and Milwaukee the top 2 picks and you're calling conspiracy? I could understand if the lakers and celtics won, but not the cavs and bucks

The nba gave Cleveland and Milwaukee the top 2 picks and you're calling conspiracy? I could understand if the lakers and celtics won, but not the cavs and bucks
- PhillySportsGuy

Why do you think the sale of the bucks got done so quick. I am not saying it is fix. Just makes it seem that way when you look at things.

Why do you think the sale of the bucks got done so quick. I am not saying it is fix. Just makes it seem that way when you look at things.
- J35Bacher

The bucks had more than a 50% chance of getting a top 2 pick

I agree with that. I've always wanted all non playoff teams to have the same shot at a top 3 pick.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. NBA made it that way. Sixers are just doing what they need to do to get better.

Anyway, I don't want umberger. This team needs more speed
- PhillySportsGuy

Exactly -- professional sports would look entirely different if teams were not rewarded for tanking.

Players would pick where they play based on things like winning, how the franchise is run. Some players would go where the money is, as always. Some would go for location. Etc., etc.

I argue that you would have more balance in leagues, with mid-market teams able to compete better, because with a salary cap, not everyone can go to LA or Florida or Texas. But a mid-market team like, say...I don't know...Charlotte. Just say Charlotte was 44-38. And they win the lottery. Maybe they become a 54-win team next year and go the finals. Their fans are happy.

Then, the next year, Phoenix wins 46 games and wins the lottery. And their team is strengthened.

You just give more teams a fair -- not better -- but fair chance to improve from mid-range to competitive.

Free agency exists. Trades exist. I simply do not believe a weighted lottery helps the league, any league, be better, and it penalizes teams far more.

The impression Hextall left (at least, from what I've read/heard) is younger, faster, cheaper.
- johndewar

... and promoting from within.

Hopefully that means the days of aiming for the Oct 1 Paper Championship are over... it's OK to leave a roster spot (or two, or three) for the kids to compete over... don't have to get every Dan Cleary, Andreas Lilja and RJ Umberger out there.

Exactly -- professional sports would look entirely different if teams were not rewarded for tanking.

Players would pick where they play based on things like winning, how the franchise is run. Some players would go where the money is, as always. Some would go for location. Etc., etc.

I argue that you would have more balance in leagues, with mid-market teams able to compete better, because with a salary cap, not everyone can go to LA or Florida or Texas. But a mid-market team like, say...I don't know...Charlotte. Just say Charlotte was 44-38. And they win the lottery. Maybe they become a 54-win team next year and go the finals. Their fans are happy.

Then, the next year, Phoenix wins 46 games and wins the lottery. And their team is strengthened.

You just give more teams a fair -- not better -- but fair chance to improve from mid-range to competitive.

Free agency exists. Trades exist. I simply do not believe a weighted lottery helps the league, any league, be better, and it penalizes teams far more.
- AllInForFlyers

I think the NBA is flawed already with the way some of these players pretty much determine where they want to play. Then with sign and trades they tell teams I am only going here so make it happen. I mean look at the deals the nuggets and magic got for howard and melo. Wasn't like they go great deals because they were limited.

So there are some interesting RFAs out there. I wonder if a deal could be made with any of there teams or if any won't get QO. Cuold be a decent player that is young to take a chance on and they can all move up and down the lineup or be a good risk on the back end. Guys like:

Tim Erixon
Zack Kassian
Michael Del Zotto
Marcus Foligno
Chris Tanev
Sami Vatenan
Brett Conolly
Carter Ashton
Mattias Ekholm
Zach Trotman
Jeremy Morin
Matt Frattin
Dylan Olsen
Tommy Wingles
Dwight King
Antoine Roussel
- J35Bacher

Not sure there are any guys on there that won't get QO'd... but I'd definitely be targeting MDZ, Erixon and Connolly... think they could conceivably be shaken loose. The rest are still pretty highly regarded by their clubs*.

*- except for Frattin, but don't want him.

The bucks had more than a 50% chance of getting a top 2 pick
- PhillySportsGuy

Your not getting what I am saying. I don't think it is fixed but the way these drafts have been determined you can argue that it is and make logical arguments. I mean look at how the NBA stepped in a nixed the Chris Paul to Lakers deal and made the Hornets/Pelicans trade him to the Clippers.

I think the NBA is flawed already with the way some of these players pretty much determine where they want to play. Then with sign and trades they tell teams I am only going here so make it happen. I mean look at the deals the nuggets and magic got for howard and melo. Wasn't like they go great deals because they were limited.
- J35Bacher

That's what makes it even worse, with the lottery -- teams like Denver and Orlando have specific windows to win. They get a Howard or Anthony at the top of the draft, then start winning 45-55 games...then have little chance of getting another crucial piece in the draft to help them get over the hump, because they're locked out of getting a high pick because they're winning.

It's ridiculous, to me.

Not sure there are any guys on there that won't get QO'd... but I'd definitely be targeting MDZ, Erixon and Connolly... think they could conceivably be shaken loose. The rest are still pretty highly regarded by their clubs.
- Tomahawk

Yeah. I was just poking through and trying to think of low risk/high reward guys or maybe guys you can shake loose for not a lot. maybe a RFA for RFA type deal for a change of scenery. I mean would you do an Akeson to Columbus for Erixon. Two guys who haven't really got a chance but maybe can in another orginization. Just one example.

That's what makes it even worse, with the lottery -- teams like Denver and Orlando have specific windows to win. They get a Howard or Anthony at the top of the draft, then start winning 45-55 games...then have little chance of getting another crucial piece in the draft to help them get over the hump, because they're locked out of getting a high pick because they're winning.

It's ridiculous, to me.
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah but then you look at teams like the Spurs. They tanked for Duncan once Robinson was hurt but they have built there team with low picks and solid pick ups.

Yeah but then you look at teams like the Spurs. They tanked for Duncan once Robinson was hurt but they have built there team with high picks and solid pick ups.
- J35Bacher

I agree -- the Spurs did well, after their tank job. They landed two generational players in Robinson and Duncan, have filled in with shrewd picks later in the draft.

But for every San Antonio, there are multiple Denvers and Phoenixes and Atlantas, teams that aren't horrible or good -- like the Sixers were until they decided to tank -- who can't get any help from the draft, because they were trying to win games.

The Sixers are the poster child for why this corrupt system should be abolished -- they literally decided to blow up the team because they knew being a 43-47 win team means absolutely nothing in the NBA, because you can't get any help from anywhere else.

Yeah. I was just poking through and trying to think of low risk/high reward guys or maybe guys you can shake loose for not a lot. maybe a RFA for RFA type deal for a change of scenery. I mean would you do an Akeson to Columbus for Erixon. Two guys who haven't really got a chance but maybe can in another orginization. Just one example.
- J35Bacher

Erixon's not a guy I want to move a roster player for... he should command about the same as Rundblad went for at the TDL.

Your not getting what I am saying. I don't think it is fixed but the way these drafts have been determined you can argue that it is and make logical arguments. I mean look at how the NBA stepped in a nixed the Chris Paul to Lakers deal and made the Hornets/Pelicans trade him to the Clippers.
- J35Bacher

Good thing he did because the trade with the Clippers ended up being much better.

I think Umberger's best days are behind him.
The Flyers really need to clear out some salary (and older vets) and not add any more higher priced aging guys. Just my opinion.
- Marc D

indeed

I agree -- the Spurs did well, after their tank job. They landed two generational players in Robinson and Duncan, have filled in with shrewd picks later in the draft.

But for every San Antonio, there are multiple Denvers and Phoenixes and Atlantas, teams that aren't horrible or good -- like the Sixers were until they decided to tank -- who can't get any help from the draft, because they were trying to win games.

The Sixers are the poster child for why this corrupt system should be abolished -- they literally decided to blow up the team because they knew being a 43-47 win team means absolutely nothing in the NBA, because you can't get any help from anywhere else.
- AllInForFlyers

The NBA should set a hard cap and allow teams pay as much as they'd like to any player. The problem now is the cap on a player's deal. Lebron signed with the Heat for only a little less than any other team could offer. If some team wants to offer Lebron $40M per year then they should be able to do it.

Miami may be fun, but would you play for $15M less per season to be there instead of Cleveland or some other city.

Erixon's not a guy I want to move a roster player for... he should command about the same as Rundblad went for at the TDL.
- Tomahawk

I wouldn't call Akeson a roster player. As good as he played in the playoffs i still think he might not make the team out of camp.

The NBA should set a hard cap and allow teams pay as much as they'd like to any player. The problem now is the cap on a player's deal. Lebron signed with the Heat for only a little less than any other team could offer. If some team wants to offer Lebron $40M per year then they should be able to do it.

Miami may be fun, but would you play for $15M less per season to be there instead of Cleveland or some other city.
- PhillySportsGuy

Absolutely.

I would be totally fine with that, too -- player caps, as you are noting, eliminate all sense of superior management. It constricts the system so idiots can compete with smart people.

The Pens, for example, decided to pay their best players a ton of money. Now, they have no depth.

That's a choice. You should either be rewarded, or penalized, for that choice. But you absolutely should get to make that choice.

I agree -- the Spurs did well, after their tank job. They landed two generational players in Robinson and Duncan, have filled in with shrewd picks later in the draft.

But for every San Antonio, there are multiple Denvers and Phoenixes and Atlantas, teams that aren't horrible or good -- like the Sixers were until they decided to tank -- who can't get any help from the draft, because they were trying to win games.

The Sixers are the poster child for why this corrupt system should be abolished -- they literally decided to blow up the team because they knew being a 43-47 win team means absolutely nothing in the NBA, because you can't get any help from anywhere else.
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah but the sixers made some bad choices too. Like when they went after Elton Brand instead of Josh Smith. and giving big money to Igudala. Sigining Weber after his prime. So I think they could have done a little better. I think Turner was a bad pick. i would have rather taken Favours or Cousins. Just think they could have made better choices

If they didn't tank, they wouldn't have ended up with a top 3 pick in a strong draft if they didn't tank
- PhillySportsGuy

I've forwarded this message to the Department of Redundancy Department, along with NHL hockey, MLB baseball, ATM Machine, and RAAS System.

I wouldn't call Akeson a roster player. As good as he played in the playoffs i still think he might not make the team out of camp.
- J35Bacher

He'd have to really drop a turd in camp for that to happen, I think, especially with cap-space being at such a premium, and him not being waiver-exempt.

And Erixon wouldn't be a lock to make the team either, though... that's the thing.

Yeah but the sixers made some bad choices too. Like when they went after Elton Brand instead of Josh Smith. and giving big money to Igudala. Sigining Weber after his prime. So I think they could have done a little better. I think Turner was a bad pick. i would have rather taken Favours or Cousins. Just think they could have made better choices
- J35Bacher

Exactly -- again, you made a choice. You should either get rewarded or penalized for that choice, based on your results.

You shouldn't get enhanced opportunities to make better choices because you effed up the first ones.