It's the mentality of win now. Defensemen & goalies, in general, take longer to develop. Forwards, especially guys taken in the high first round, can usually step in and handle a secondary role, at least.

Seriously, look at the picks-Zubrus, Gagne, Williams, Carter, Richards, Giroux, Couturier...most of them never played a full season in the AHL, and a few of them only spent time there because of lockouts.
- Jsaquella

IMO, very few d-men and even less goalies who left the organization at a young age, didn't do much in other organizations either. Certainly there are a few exceptions, but for whatever reason the ability to recognize talent during the evaluation process has to be improved. For Hexy, that is one of his great challenges taking over the job.

I know. Its damn near impossible to account for NHL inflation. By the end of Giroux's deal, he'll be getting paid as a 3rd line checker.
- PhillySportsGuy

Its why Hartnells deal doesn't bother me, in 3 more years 3rd line checkers will be making 4 million or more

Yeah, he's about to be the highest paid dman in the league. They really (frank)ed him during the last contract round... his agent is going to be out for blood this time.
- Tomahawk

You have to pay it. I don't even see how you get around it.

You might not want to, but you damn near have to. What he's doing back there...it's truly impressive.

Carter is flying for the Kings
LOL

Its why Hartnells deal doesn't bother me, in 3 more years 3rd line checkers will be making 4 million or more
- BiggE

Yeah. I dont mind Hartnell either because he's still producing at a nice clip.

He'll get worse with age, but I don't think he'll kill the team. They'll just throw him on Schenn's line

Carter is flying for the Kings
LOL
- Winning

He says, after the first 15 seconds of the game

Its why Hartnells deal doesn't bother me, in 3 more years 3rd line checkers will be making 4 million or more
- BiggE

Looks at Clarkson, Laich, Malone, and Cole.... think that already happened

He says, after the first 15 seconds of the game
- Giroux_Is_God

Im not sure what took him so long

IMO, very few d-men and even less goalies who left the organization at a young age, didn't do much in other organizations either. Certainly there are a few exceptions, but for whatever reason the ability to recognize talent during the evaluation process has to be improved. For Hexy, that is one of his great challenges taking over the job.
- ravishingone

That's true, too.

Sbisa went away and struggled, Niinimaa had a decent career, but never fulfilled the promise he showed as a rookie, Pitkanen had a good solid career, too.

The one guy I can think of that had a really solid career and exceeded expectations is Seidenberg.

But again, they usually don't draft Dmen that high. A few second rounders, but especially under Homer, they haven't had a lot of 2nds.

That's true, too.

Sbisa went away and struggled, Niinimaa had a decent career, but never fulfilled the promise he showed as a rookie, Pitkanen had a good solid career, too.

The one guy I can think of that had a really solid career and exceeded expectations is Seidenberg.

But again, they usually don't draft Dmen that high. A few second rounders, but especially under Homer, they haven't had a lot of 2nds.
- Jsaquella

It is what it is, though -- it wasn't always easy, but you could acquire good defensemen, once upon a time.

Now, you can't. They've done the right things, drafting them, and Ghost, if he works out, was simply an inspired pick. That's a pick maybe they don't make, three or four years ago

That's true, too.

Sbisa went away and struggled, Niinimaa had a decent career, but never fulfilled the promise he showed as a rookie, Pitkanen had a good solid career, too.

The one guy I can think of that had a really solid career and exceeded expectations is Seidenberg.

But again, they usually don't draft Dmen that high. A few second rounders, but especially under Homer, they haven't had a lot of 2nds.
- Jsaquella

The overall view of the draft needs to change a bit. There is no reason to be spending picks on guys like Mathers or Z2. Guys like that are a dime a dozen. Those mid-late round picks should be used on raw talents with upside.

Looks at Clarkson, Laich, Malone, and Cole.... think that already happened
- Tomahawk

Wonder what Washington's new GM's gonna do with some of those pieces.

People up in Toronto are already freaking out that Kadri and Gardiner are getting moved since Carlyle's staying.

Those are two teams that have some interesting pieces, if they decided to change directions with personnel

It is what it is, though -- it wasn't always easy, but you could acquire good defensemen, once upon a time.

Now, you can't. They've done the right things, drafting them, and Ghost, if he works out, was simply an inspired pick. That's a pick maybe they don't have, three or four years ago
- AllInForFlyers

FTFY

John Gibson is going to be really really good in the not so distant future.

Wonder what Washington's new GM's gonna do with some of those pieces.

People up in Toronto are already freaking out that Kadri and Gardiner are getting moved since Carlyle's staying.

Those are two teams that have some interesting pieces, if they decided to change directions with personnel
- AllInForFlyers

I could see Stasny being a good player for Toronto. I'm not sure what their financial situation is.

FTFY
- PhillySportsGuy

Very, very true

John Gibson is going to be really really good in the not so distant future.
- Giroux_Is_God

He looks good so far

It is what it is, though -- it wasn't always easy, but you could acquire good defensemen, once upon a time.

Now, you can't. They've done the right things, drafting them, and Ghost, if he works out, was simply an inspired pick. That's a pick maybe they don't make, three or four years ago
- AllInForFlyers

It bugged me, because Homer loves the amateur scouting and is quite good at it. Guys like Richards, Sharp, Giroux were found by Homer running the amateur scouting

I could see Stasny being a good player for Toronto. I'm not sure what their financial situation is.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think they're tight with the cap, with the extensions of Kessel and Phaneuf kicking in.

All the names are in the hopper up there, with smart people able to make some decent arguments as to who should go, with the exception of Kessel. They seem to have gotten comfortable with who he is as a player, for the most part

I think they're tight with the cap, with the extensions of Kessel and Phaneuf kicking in.

All the names are in the hopper up there, with smart people able to make some decent arguments as to who should go, with the exception of Kessel. They seem to have gotten comfortable with who he is as a player, for the most part
- AllInForFlyers

It's sad, because I think they have a great group of players, and a lot of up and coming talent... the coach was obviously the problem, but of course he's the guy who gets the 2-year stamp of approval, lol.

The overall view of the draft needs to change a bit. There is no reason to be spending picks on guys like Mathers or Z2. Guys like that are a dime a dozen. Those mid-late round picks should be used on raw talents with upside.
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed wholeheartedly. If you have to take a guy like Klotz, take him in the 7th round or sign him as a free agent. Ghoulbourne in the third round just baffles me...sure he might be a Rinaldo guy in a year or two, but he would have been there in the 5th round...or another guy just like him would have been.

It bugged me, because Homer loves the amateur scouting and is quite good at it. Guys like Richards, Sharp, Giroux were found by Homer running the amateur scouting
- Jsaquella

Absolutely -- it was irritating. When they draft...man. No team is perfect. But when they actually make picks, choose players, FFS...they are as good as anybody.

Look at Patrick Maroon. I'm not saying he should still be here -- sometimes, guys' attitudes don't fit. That's fine.

But damn. The Flyers drafted that guy after watching him play a ton of roller hockey! It's unbelievable, the players they find when they're looking to draft, more often than not

I think they're tight with the cap, with the extensions of Kessel and Phaneuf kicking in.

All the names are in the hopper up there, with smart people able to make some decent arguments as to who should go, with the exception of Kessel. They seem to have gotten comfortable with who he is as a player, for the most part
- AllInForFlyers

In 3 years, when Seguin is a Hart Trophy candidate and Hamitlon is developing into a #1 dman, they'll get really mad again.

Absolutely -- it was irritating. When they draft...man. No team is perfect. But when they actually make picks, choose players, FFS...they are as good as anybody.

Look at Patrick Maroon. I'm not saying he should still be here -- sometimes, guys' attitudes don't fit. That's fine.

But damn. The Flyers drafted that guy after watching him play a ton of roller hockey! It's unbelievable, the players they find when they're looking to draft, more often than not
- AllInForFlyers

They're good at finding players. They might not be Detroit, but they have shown an ability to find players later in drafts, and they rarely miss on first rounders.

Even guys like Maroon or Colin Fraser have become valuable role players that can play 3rd or 4th line and work on the PK or provide physicality and decent hands.

Agreed wholeheartedly. If you have to take a guy like Klotz, take him in the 7th round or sign him as a free agent. Ghoulbourne in the third round just baffles me...sure he might be a Rinaldo guy in a year or two, but he would have been there in the 5th round...or another guy just like him would have been.
- Jsaquella

Those types of guys are easy to find in FA and cheap too. What would Rinaldo make on the open market?

It just makes more sense to take a shot in the dark on a raw prospect than draft a 13th forward who will bring energy and indiscipline