You're so obsessed with ignoring Lecavalier's proven offensive ability. And also ignoring the injury and playing out of position. Is defensive play the only thing that contributes to a players +/-? When an offensive player has an off year point wise, it can affect his +/-.
The fact that he had a bad year and still scored 20 goals, says something about the player. If he's healthy, and in the right situation, he can still be effective. And he's not the only player on the ice when goals are scored against.
- MJL

Well, I just hope we can find VL a new back, new coach, new linemates and make sure he plays center. That shouldn't be too hard to do.

Kimmo is also a much better passer and keeping the puck in the offensive zone.
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed!

Its not just about firing bombs, cycling across to find lanes, while shooting deflectable shots, and keeping poised under pressure.

They really have 2 PP quarterbacks when you think about it, or a 1 & 1A.

1. 1000%

2. I'd give him up to his present cap-hit, if he'd accept a contract that is mostly p-bonuses like Iginla's.
- Tomahawk

Interesting.

I keep going back and forth on it. Love some of the things he is still able to do, extremely concerned about the things that age has taken from him.

Weren't we talking about getting shots through?

Streit's bombs are much more likely to get blocked than Kimmo's judicious use of the wrister... again, the numbers don't lie.

Kimmo's on the 1st-PP because he's not just a better distributor, but plain better at getting shots through, so our two big-bodies in front can tip and bang home rebounds.

Remember, Streit had a shot to steal Kimmo's QB job, but dropped the ball.
- Tomahawk

Streit has a much better chance of beating a goaltender from the point them Timonen does. Streit could take some off the shot, and just throw some of the weak shots at the net, similar to Timonen, and raise that percentage. But in my opinion, that is not what is needed. He's a much better threat from the point then Timonen is. Streit had more PP goals, and scored 15 PP points to Timonen's 20 PP points. While playing on the 2nd unit, and significantly less time.
Streit didn't drop the ball at all. He's a better PP point man then Timonen is at this point, and should've been on the top unit. How many ore PP points does Streit pick up playing on the top unit with Giroux?

Agreed!

Its not just about firing bombs, cycling across to find lanes, while shooting deflectable shots.

They really have 2 PP quarterbacks when you think about it, or a 1 & 1A.
- puckhead17

They're two different players but both effective. I wouldn't be concerned if Streit had to take the reigns of the top PP unit. I don't think there would be a significant drop off.

You're so obsessed with displaying Vinny's career achievements. Maybe we should sign Heatley and Ray Whitney this offseason to form a super line of Heatley-Lecavalier-Whitney.
- PhillySportsGuy

VL and Gagne have identical 0.36 goals per game numbers... yet Gagne can't find a job. Players decline... sometimes suddenly. It's sad, but a fact of life.

You're so obsessed with ignoring Lecavalier's proven offensive ability. And also ignoring the injury and playing out of position. Is defensive play the only thing that contributes to a players +/-? When an offensive player has an off year point wise, it can affect his +/-.
The fact that he had a bad year and still scored 20 goals, says something about the player. If he's healthy, and in the right situation, he can still be effective. And he's not the only player on the ice when goals are scored against.
- MJL

My question is: Is it worth getting Lecav in those situations at the cap hit and at the expense of others all in the context of Berube's system? I honestly can't answer that, but the value Lecav brought late in the system was low per dollar and cap space IMO.

such beer league defending the front of the net for anaheim. only one dman there and he basically put the puck in his own net. how does this happen at the nhl level?

Well, I just hope we can find VL a new back, new coach, new linemates and make sure he plays center. That shouldn't be too hard to do.
- PhillySportsGuy

There's the difference between out opinions. I'm willing to look at the positives and the negatives. And look at and question whether he is a fit going forward. But I also know what he is still capable of. There doesn't seem to be that objectivity there from your side of it.

Well, I just hope we can find VL a new back, new coach, new linemates and make sure he plays center. That shouldn't be too hard to do.
- PhillySportsGuy

They're two different players but both effective. I wouldn't be concerned if Streit had to take the reigns of the top PP unit. I don't think there would be a significant drop off.
- PhillySportsGuy

That's the key element, the PP would look different.

What a great warrior-type playoff play by Mike Richards to beat Getzlaf along the boards and center for the game-tying goal with 7 seconds left.

1. 1000%

2. I'd give him up to his present cap-hit, if he'd accept a contract that is mostly p-bonuses like Iginla's.
- Tomahawk

And wait until the bonus overages that Boston is going to have to pay on next year's Cap kick in.

VL and Gagne have identical 0.36 goals per game numbers... yet Gagne can't find a job. Players decline... sometimes suddenly. It's sad, but a fact of life.
- Tomahawk

I know. Were making a case for what he'll be like over the next 4 years not for the Hall of Fame.

Well, I just hope we can find VL a new back, new coach, new linemates and make sure he plays center. That shouldn't be too hard to do.
- PhillySportsGuy

Ouch!

VL and Gagne have identical 0.36 goals per game numbers... yet Gagne can't find a job. Players decline... sometimes suddenly. It's sad, but a fact of life.
- Tomahawk

And players sometimes just have an off year, due to a number of reasons, such as injury. And they bounce back.

And players sometimes just have an off year, due to a number of reasons, such as injury. And they bounce back.
- MJL

Let's hope. Even before the back injury I noticed a number of bad turnovers by VL.

My question is: Is it worth getting Lecav in those situations at the cap hit and at the expense of others all in the context of Berube's system? I honestly can't answer that, but the value Lecav brought late in the system was low per dollar and cap space IMO.
- jstross

At his age and cap hit? No. You can't tailor a scoring line around a player who doesn't drive possession and make his linemates better.

Again: That doesn't mean he can't play. But seriously -- at some point, you have to acknowledge what the player is or isn't, and if what he isn't able to do outweighs what he can do.

That's what all aging players face.

watching Getzlaf go head to head with Kopitar is amazing

There's the difference between out opinions. I'm willing to look at the positives and the negatives. And look at and question whether he is a fit going forward. But I also know what he is still capable of. There doesn't seem to be that objectivity there from your side of it.
- MJL

I think he can be effective on a certain team that really limits his minutes and uses him more on the PP. Ive advocating for him to be on the Flyers top PP. Thats how much I respect his shot.

As it stands now, he is a complete liability at 5 on 5. In reality, he should be used like Selanne.

I know. Were making a case for what he'll be like over the next 4 years not for the Hall of Fame.
- PhillySportsGuy

How confident is the organization that he will improve upon last season?

I know Snider mentioned some things closing out.

And players sometimes just have an off year, due to a number of reasons, such as injury. And they bounce back.
- MJL

I'd buy that, if there wasn't already a clear downward trend in his production going back some years.

I think he can be effective on a certain team that really limits his minutes and uses him more on the PP. Ive advocating for him to be on the Flyers top PP. Thats how much I respect his shot.

As it stands now, he is a complete liability at 5 on 5. In reality, he should be used like Selanne.
- PhillySportsGuy

salami had a nice goal tonight to put the ducks up 2-1. unfortunately for the ducks, they don't know how to defend the front of the net.

I think he can be effective on a certain team that really limits his minutes and uses him more on the PP. Ive advocating for him to be on the Flyers top PP. Thats how much I respect his shot.

As it stands now, he is a complete liability at 5 on 5. In reality, he should be used like Selanne.
- PhillySportsGuy

And he can still wheel around, Vinny cannot, there's another determining factor when limiting his time.

At his age and cap hit? No. You can't tailor a scoring line around a player who doesn't drive possession and make his linemates better.

Again: That doesn't mean he can't play. But seriously -- at some point, you have to acknowledge what the player is or isn't, and if what he isn't able to do outweighs what he can do.

That's what all aging players face.
- AllInForFlyers

A scoring line doesn't have to be tailored around Lecavalier. He just has to be part of the right mix, and used correctly. Like a lot of players. Not every player is going to, or has to make his linemates better. A line just has to be complimentary, to work.
How many of the Flyers forwards "drive possession" and make their linemates better?