Exlund I think that is a very solid post.

Outlines a lot of the good, and "optimistic good" Holmgren has done.

However, there is a lot of negative to counter that as well. Its not so intensely one sided.

Toward my view as well, and I can admit that.
- flyer_nutter

With all due respect, alot (not all) of the negative comments I see seem to be frought with shortsightedness and/or ignorance. I know everyone wants to win it all NOW, seemingly every year, but that's just not realistic, but every year, regardless of the team's makeup, you have people that seem to want to tear it all down and fire people hen we don't win the Cup.

I'm thinking in terms of window of opportunity and basing my expectations on how open I think that window is and how open I think it will be in the future. My previous (long) post explains where I'm at with things...the window just isn't open wide enough....yet...but it will be.

Wait! What? Who? How? Just today for goodness sake?
- bodiva88

Hi Bo. I popped in for game 1. Was away in Phoenix last week and popped back in yesterday and today. How you doing?

Homer should explore. Canucks might be looking to move him. He needs a change of scenery. Not exactly your prototypical Flyers D though. Could be a decent replacement for Kimmo though. He has good upside if he gets his mojo back.
- rockychocbill

doubt vinny would waive to go there, doesnt seem like that kinda guy

Would you trade Vinny (and maybe a mid prospect) for Alex Edler?
- rockychocbill

I would trade him for a lot less than that. I think they have a shot though to find a team desperate enough for offense or a recognized name for the fans to get at least something useful back for him. But I'd move him just to remove that cap hit.

With all due respect, alot (not all) of the negative comments I see seem to be frought with shortsightedness and/or ignorance. I know everyone wants to win it all NOW, seemingly every year, but that's just not realistic, but every year, regardless of the team's makeup, you have people that seem to want to tear it all down and fire people hen we don't win the Cup.

I'm thinking in terms of window of opportunity and basing my expectations on how open I think that window is and how open I think it will be in the future. My previous (long) post explains where I'm at with things...the window just isn't open wide enough....yet...but it will be.
- exlund

With all due respect, I do think a lot of the following hold some measure. Not GM is perfect, but there have been some glaring issues. I do appreciate your point of view though.

-JVR
-Bryzgalov
-Kubina
-Eminger
-Inability to field an NHL caliber fourth line with all the money and an attractive FA destination
-Overpaying for his players due to an inability to draft and develop your own
-Most expensive one dimensional D in the NHL
-Failure to fire your old coach in the off-season but fire him a handful of games into the year
-Cap management failure with Gagne/Walker
-Constant shift of identity. Switch from defensive with Stevens, to aggressive under Lava, back to D first with Berube
-Constant inability to employ a team with disciplined players
-Managed to escape two albatross contracts with the gift of buy-outs
-LeCavalier
-Streit will haunt them in a few years

-Inability to properly develop a D from within, doing so at the last second possible as we have evidence of.
-Questionable drafting (Ghoulborne). Or however you spell it.

-Apparently the focus is on youth but developing Guss in the press box, and signing aging players to big contracts take away minutes from said youth.

-Chronic team wide inconsistency during his tenure. A team living and dying by its hot streaks. Constant player turnover, but he remains.

You have a time machine handy to send 2014 Mason back to 2010?
- eayost

Biron and Leighton weren't horrible. But Mason might have made the difference.

With all due respect, alot (not all) of the negative comments I see seem to be frought with shortsightedness and/or ignorance. I know everyone wants to win it all NOW, seemingly every year, but that's just not realistic, but every year, regardless of the team's makeup, you have people that seem to want to tear it all down and fire people hen we don't win the Cup.

I'm thinking in terms of window of opportunity and basing my expectations on how open I think that window is and how open I think it will be in the future. My previous (long) post explains where I'm at with things...the window just isn't open wide enough....yet...but it will be.
- exlund

Explain Vinny then

doubt vinny would waive to go there, doesnt seem like that kinda guy
- watsonnostaw

How did he and Torts leave things in Tampa? Any chance he waives to go play for John if he stays with VCR?

How did he and Torts leave things in Tampa? Any chance he waives to go play for John if he stays with VCR?
- rockychocbill

I thought torts was fired (more to come)

With all due respect, I do think a lot of the following hold some measure. Not GM is perfect, but there have been some glaring issues. I do appreciate your point of view though.

-JVR
-Bryzgalov
-Kubina
-Eminger
-Inability to field an NHL caliber fourth line with all the money and an attractive FA destination
-Overpaying for his players due to an inability to draft and develop your own
-Most expensive one dimensional D in the NHL
-Failure to fire your old coach in the off-season but fire him a handful of games into the year
-Cap management failure with Gagne/Walker
-Constant shift of identity. Switch from defensive with Stevens, to aggressive under Lava, back to D first with Berube
-Constant inability to employ a team with disciplined players
-Managed to escape two albatross contracts with the gift of buy-outs
-LeCavalier
-Streit will haunt them in a few years

-Inability to properly develop a D from within, doing so at the last second possible as we have evidence of.
-Questionable drafting (Ghoulborne). Or however you spell it.

-Apparently the focus is on youth but developing Guss in the press box, and signing aging players to big contracts take away minutes from said youth.

-Chronic team wide inconsistency during his tenure. A team living and dying by its hot streaks. Constant player turnover, but he remains.
- flyer_nutter

Wow....good stuff. And I agree, the flyers philosophy out of their own mouth is to win the Cup every year! They've said time and time again. Not exactly building this thing up in a patient approach. Like Exlund has mentioned, and I've never hear the flyers talk in that manner

I thought torts was fired (more to come)
- watsonnostaw

I doubt Aquilini will want to pay yet another guy to go and make money somewhere else. Luongo, Gillis, Tortorella. Expensive clusterfudge.

This is shaping up to be quite the night for you 2Real

Wow....good stuff. And I agree, the flyers philosophy is to apparently win the Cup every year, as they've said time and time again. Not exactly building this thing up in a patient approach. Like Exlund has mentioned.
- Just5

I will always concede, that emotion affects my posts as well to a degree. I wont discount his views they do hold a lot of water as well.

Either way, I am intrigued by the future direction of this squad, and the decisions in the next 1-2 years will tell a lot imo. Do want Giroux to hoist one here though. I really wanted one for Timonen, more so than anyone.

I doubt Aquilini will want to pay yet another guy to go and make money somewhere else. Luongo, Gillis, Tortorella. Expensive clusterfudge.
- rockychocbill

The news was from a TSN guy. Other media guys reported what he reported. Seems legit

I doubt Aquilini will want to pay yet another guy to go and make money somewhere else. Luongo, Gillis, Tortorella. Expensive clusterfudge.
- rockychocbill

Vancouver has tried to stay 'competative' while they rebuild. Foolish imo. They should have blown that poop up, starting with the Sedins.

A few keepers, but Calgary will be back on track before they are Im thinking.

I will always concede, that emotion affects my posts as well to a degree. I wont discount his views they do hold a lot of water as well.

Either way, I am intrigued by the future direction of this squad, and the decisions in the next 1-2 years will tell a lot imo. Do want Giroux to hoist one here though. I really wanted one for Timonen, more so than anyone.
- flyer_nutter

It's possible that they've finally started the patient building approach, but it'll take a few years from now to reap the fruit so to speak.

The news was from a TSN guy. Other media guys reported what he reported. Seems legit
- eayost

Wait, what? I thought watson was jesting. Did the Canucks make some announcement? I've been flipping channels all night.

Wait, what? I thought watson was jesting. Did the Canucks make some announcement? I've been flipping channels all night.
- rockychocbill

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=450923

Wait, what? I thought watson was jesting. Did the Canucks make some announcement? I've been flipping channels all night.
- rockychocbill

"@FarhanLaljiTSN: BREAKING - John Tortorella will be fired by #canucks tomorrow"

I posted that a couple pages back

double post

It's possible that they've finally started the patient building approach, but it'll take a few years from now to reap the fruit so to speak.
- eayost

I get that commitment, but not always.

There isn't a commitment to that when you sign LeCavalier who's success was favoured over bSchenn's development for a lot of this year imo.

That's just one example, of how trying to stay competitive, and make the playoffs at all cost hinders their overall growth, and the true growth they need. Again, all just a crazy man's thoughts.

Vancouver has tried to stay 'competative' while they rebuild. Foolish imo. They should have blown that poop up, starting with the Sedins.

A few keepers, but Calgary will be back on track before they are Im thinking.
- flyer_nutter

exactly. if youre not moving forward, youre moving backwards. its so hard to retool while remaining competitive. you need to realize and identify if the core cant get it done, and try to move on it possible

Ed Snider is the problem with following a team building plan, he is a meddler in my negative opinion

Vancouver has tried to stay 'competative' while they rebuild. Foolish imo. They should have blown that poop up, starting with the Sedins.

A few keepers, but Calgary will be back on track before they are Im thinking.
- flyer_nutter

Totally. Signing the Sedins was the honorable, but wrong thing to do. They put up the points (until this season) but they get pushed around too much. They are now decent secondary scorers making first line money. Getting rid of Schneider was not a good move either. They have Horvat on the horizon though.

i missed the third period because i had my own game, but from what i read, it seems like this game was a carbon copy of the 2004 ECF game 7 against tampa. very frustrating.

crucial 2nd period was their undoing, and you're not going to win on the road scoring only 1 goal. pp came up empty - they lost. in 3 of their 4 losses, they only scored 1 goal, and never made the rangers goalie work for a victory.

i wish mason had been healthy the whole series, and i really wish he played game 3 - that was there chance to turn the series on home ice and they blew it.

there are a lot of good pieces for this team moving forward, including prospects like laughton and gostisbehere, but we have to be patient and let them develop.

sigh.