my backreading has been spotty? is that the trade you offered? im aboard the kesler train, if he can realistically be acquired. the injury history and salary dont deter me. but that deal i dont know if i could do.
- stayinthefnnet

I proposed a Neal/Despres/Sutter for Kassian/Kesler trade (or something similar). Skill for grit. Salary wise, its likely a wash. I also proposed signing someone like Mike Camillari for $4 mill-ish. Lines:

Kunitz/Crosby/Gibbons or Dupuis
Cammy/Malkin/Bennett
Kassian/Kesler/Duper or Gibbons
Goc/Adams/Megna/Payerl

Letang/Maata
Scuds/Martin
Bortuzzo/Pouliot
Engelland/Samlson

MAF/Zat

I don't want to pay Sutter north of $4 mill. Don't want to resign Nisk, Jokinen, or Stemp as they are to soft. Pass on Orpik also.

I think the above team is a cup contender. They would likely score a bit less in regular season but are more playoff capable. Roster is also a bit more evenly distributed across the top 3 lines.

I proposed a Neal/Despres/Sutter for Kassian/Kesler trade (or something similar). Skill for grit. Salary wise, its likely a wash. I also proposed signing someone like Mike Camillari for $4 mill-ish. Lines:

Kunitz/Crosby/Gibbons or Dupuis
Cammy/Malkin/Bennett
Kassian/Kesler/Duper or Gibbons
Goc/Adams/Megna/Payerl

Letang/Maata
Scuds/Martin
Bortuzzo/Pouliot
Engelland/Samlson

MAF/Zat

I don't want to pay Sutter north of $4 mill. Don't want to resign Nisk, Jokinen, or Stemp as they are to soft. Pass on Orpik also.

I think the above team is a cup contender. They would likely score a bit less in regular season but are more playoff capable. Roster is also a bit more evenly distributed across the top 3 lines.
- 87_71_11_29

i really like the idea of trying to keep jokinen if financially feasible. he may not be a grit guy, but he is beyond versatile.

Yes I agree on Sutter line mates but still, do you want to pay him $4 million while you're trying to find out what he can do? Would you rather have Sutter at $4 mill or Kesler at $5 mill? I know who I am picking.

Also, without moving pieces, how do you propose we get quality 3rd line guys wo trading Neal/Malkin, etc..? Our defensive depth would likely be your answer. Except that wont work with the cap. Shero is going to have to move some $ out in order to get back what he wants. Since Sid, Malkin, Letang aren't likely going anywhere, that leaves Neal. The cap is indeed going up. However, Letangs raise kicks in and so does Malkins which takes up most of the cap increase.

And full disclosure...I don't like Neal (too inconsistent, to cheap, and he's not a power forward..if he's not scoring, he bring nothing else to the table...never win with that guy) but I think he does have value for the various reasons you describe.

Finally, Kesler on the 3rd line? I think if Pens fans should understand anything at this point, its that your 3rd line matters. You have to put $ into it otherwise you have the 2013-2014 Pens.
- 87_71_11_29

You don't trade players like Malkin and Neal to shore up your third line.

So you think this team would be better off getting older?
- madmike71

Kesler is 29. Kassian is 23.
Sutter is 25, Neal 26, Despres early 20's.

Yes, would get a bit older but younger on the blueline with Orpik and Nisk leaving via FA.

Basically, you would have this lineup for 2 years until Kesler becomes an UFA. At that point, you'd likely have to get into Neals next contract anyway. Plus, Despres' raise.

And, I in no way shape or form want to pay Brandon Sutter anything north of $3 million which I think he will easily command.

Finally, this is the TYPE of deal the Pens need to make. Trade skill for grit. Just used Vancouver as a possible partner.

This specific trade gives Pens a legitimate 2 year window to win a cup.

Kesler is 29. Kassian is 23.
Sutter is 25, Neal 26, Despres early 20's.

Yes, would get a bit older but younger on the blueline with Orpik and Nisk leaving via FA.

Basically, you would have this lineup for 2 years until Kesler becomes an UFA. At that point, you'd likely have to get into Neals next contract anyway. Plus, Despres' raise.

And, I in no way shape or form want to pay Brandon Sutter anything north of $3 million which I think he will easily command.

Finally, this is the TYPE of deal the Pens need to make. Trade skill for grit. Just used Vancouver as a possible partner.

This specific trade gives Pens a legitimate 2 year window to win a cup.
- 87_71_11_29

i dont know, i know he has some sandpaper to him, but ive never been impressed by kassian. unless he had like a flourishing this year

not to speak for anyone, but its not all blind hate. there are a lot of rational points behind the notion of trading him. he is another one like fleury, i love the guy. but it might be better overall to move on. with fleury, it might just be better because i think both parties need to start fresh. letang still has a lot of merit as a player. but when you really think about it, unless he manages to take a big time step forward in his game mentally, its hard to overlook these factors.
- stayinthefnnet

It's not about the reasoning I'm talking about..it's how Oneonta says it. To him Letang is garbage and he tries to make people believe that by saying 100x over and over.

Look at his injury history.

Also, whether you like James Neal or not - obviously you don't with your comments, a young forward who scores 30-40 goals a year making 5 million don't grow on trees. I DON'T like the thought of spending 5 million on a third line center, which is exactly what Kesler would be in Pittsburgh. You have other missing pieces.

Sutter isn't worth 4 million. However, get the kid some capable forwards and he can play a good game. Noticeable difference between him centering Glass and Pyatt and him with Bennett/Stempy and Gibbons wouldn't you say?
- Oneonta Penguin

Exactly. He's got a team friendly deal and is one of the best pure goal scorers in the league. I hate that he definitely crosses the line with his cheap shots and he needs to eliminate that crap and keep his emotions in check but for years we wanted a high scorer winger and once we finally get him people want to ship him out. Ridiculous.

You don't trade players like Malkin and Neal to shore up your third line.
- acdc1206

Agreed. But, if that "3rd liner" is a guy like Kesler...

I just don't get the love Pens fans have for James Neal. Yes he scores and has a relatively cap friendly number.

Beyond that, what else does he bring?

Score in the clutch and/or playoffs? NO
Play the body? NO
Trust him in a big moment? NO
Kill penalties? NO
Consistent? NO
Grind? NO
Take dumb penalties that sap energy from the team? YES
Have a reputation across the league of being a cheap shot artist? YES

No offense, but I think that idea is crazy. Trading away a young 40 goal winger with a long term contract for an older center (30 next year) with two more years of control.

This team IMO needs to get younger. Especially on wing. Kunitz and Duper will be 35 next year. If they're thinking of resigning Stempy or JJ....again, guys that are 30+.
- madmike71

Most definitely.

You don't trade players like Malkin and Neal to shore up your third line.
- acdc1206

No you don't but you can trade a guy like Neal for the right package that nets a good young winger that may be compatable with your two top centers and help on the bottom six thus making your whole team better.

Not too hard to figure it out...

Trade Scuderi for a 5th-7th Round pick.
Let Orpik walk.

Try to re-sign Niskanen.
Let Despres and Bortuzzo have a chance.

Adams 13th forward at best (since he's still signed for a year or buy him out).
Let Megna, Sill and Gibbons have a chance.

Try to re-sign Jokes, Goc and Stempy.

Again...let the kids play!!

No you don't but you can trade a guy like Neal for the right package that nets a good young winger that may be compatable with your two top centers and help on the bottom six thus making your whole team better.
- Incredible Malk

If we sent James Neal (as the centerpiece) to LA, could we land Mike Richards or Dustin Brown?

So lots of good talk. Bottom line IMO...

Pens need to slightly restructure their lineup and they can be back to being a true contender. If Shero makes the right trades and gets some grit and nastiness on this team, they are back in business. You have to give something to get something. I DONT think the Pens have to sacrifice Malkin, Crosby, or Letang to do it. I do think they may have to sacrifice Neal, Sutter, Despres however.

We tend to fall in love with our own players. Various folks on this board like Neal, Stemps, Jokinen, Sutter, Despres, and Niskanen to varying degrees. But, do any of you REALLY want any of those guys suited up for you in a pivotal game in Boston going up against Lucic. Chara, Bergeron, Marchand, and those boys? If you say Yes to that, I'm glad you're not the Pens GM.

Not too hard to figure it out...

Trade Scuderi for a 5th-7th Round pick.
Let Orpik walk.

Try to re-sign Niskanen.
Let Despres and Bortuzzo have a chance.

Adams 13th forward at best (since he's still signed for a year or buy him out).
Let Megna, Sill and Gibbons have a chance.

Try to re-sign Jokes, Goc and Stempy.

Again...let the kids play!!
- Orpik44

if they can trade scuderi for anything, i will do a jig. i just think it will either be 1. no takers. or 2. well, we asked him and he said no.

If we sent James Neal (as the centerpiece) to LA, could we land Mike Richards or Dustin Brown?
- Orpik44

i wouldnt mind richards, but only if he got bought out. that deal is way too long. and i still just think from a purely asset quantity and financial standpoint, moving letang is a much more fruitful path than moving neal.

Most definitely.
- acdc1206

I would love to get younger and add more grit. In fact, I think Shero should consider trading Kunitz and/or Dupes this offseason. At least not rule it out.

Trouble with getting younger is I didn't really see any young, gritty winger types that could truly be had. I'd have to scan the rosters a bit more but none off the top of my head.

Any suggestions?

It's not about the reasoning I'm talking about..it's how Oneonta says it. To him Letang is garbage and he tries to make people believe that by saying 100x over and over.
- Orpik44

Is letang garbage, no... Is he going to be overpaid, yes... Shero needs to suck it up and admit he made a bad deal in signing him and try to trade him at the draft. And then afterwards resign Nisk.

I would love to get younger and add more grit. In fact, I think Shero should consider trading Kunitz and/or Dupes this offseason. At least not rule it out.

Trouble with getting younger is I didn't really see any young, gritty winger types that could truly be had. I'd have to scan the rosters a bit more but none off the top of my head.

Any suggestions?
- 87_71_11_29

its very hard. its so hard to improve via trades anymore, and forget free agency. so much of it is just draft and develop now.

impossible suggestion? simmonds. boom.

Is letang garbage, no... Is he going to be overpaid, yes... Shero needs to suck it up and admit he made a bad deal in signing him and try to trade him at the draft. And then afterwards resign Nisk.
- drummer829

i really would like nisk back. i just think the trouble is nisks deal is only going to be a little over a million a year less than letangs.

Ageed on disco and letang
-scuderi needs to be traded or amnestied ... Most of us thought it was a good move ... We were wrong... Time to move on... Perhaps the money can be used to resign Orpik or nisk.
-fleury will take the blame, some of it fair, some unfair ... It may be time to move forward ... Trade of amnesty
-pens would be insane to trade Malkin... They will NEVER get equal value ... Unless Shea weber or Steve stamkos is coming back ... No no no
- Crosby, maata, Martin, Malkin, Kunitz are the core ... Everyone else ( including Neal) they should atleast listen on
- Brianandr1

Why would you want to resign Orpik when his play has been in decline for while now? It will be another Scuderi signing. The Pens need to move on from Orpik. He's not close to being the player he once was and never will be plus he will be in his mid 30s during a contract.

Why would you want to resign Orpik when his play has been in decline for while now? It will be another Scuderi signing. The Pens need to move on from Orpik. He's not close to being the player he once was and never will be plus he will be in his mid 30s during a contract.
- acdc1206

yeah. they HAVE to let him go.

its very hard. its so hard to improve via trades anymore, and forget free agency. so much of it is just draft and develop now.

impossible suggestion? simmonds. boom.
- stayinthefnnet

Would love Simmons.

Just did a quick scan of rosters....gritty forward types or could be had perhaps wo costing too much. Not much out there..

Oilers - Ryan Jones
Kings - King, Nolan
Yotes - Chipchura
Blues - Reaves
Isles - Martin

Would love Martin from the Isles or either of the Kings guys.

yeah. they HAVE to let him go.
- stayinthefnnet

Agreed

Would love Simmons.

Just did a quick scan of rosters....gritty forward types or could be had perhaps wo costing too much. Not much out there..

Oilers - Ryan Jones
Kings - King, Nolan
Yotes - Chipchura
Blues - Reaves
Isles - Martin

Would love Martin from the Isles or either of the Kings guys.
- 87_71_11_29

i understand you cant have a team full of paper bags, but im not a huge fan of grit without any sort of skill in the player either.

I would love to get younger and add more grit. In fact, I think Shero should consider trading Kunitz and/or Dupes this offseason. At least not rule it out.

Trouble with getting younger is I didn't really see any young, gritty winger types that could truly be had. I'd have to scan the rosters a bit more but none off the top of my head.

Any suggestions?
- 87_71_11_29

Lots of good talk indeed.

That's a good point in that teams with those commodities don't want to trade them especially when they have skill.