IMO...

Pens need to change their roster makeup. Right now, too much skill, not enough grit. Simple as that.

I think they need to focus on turning Neal, Sutter, and Despres into some forwards with size, bulk, and some nasty. No point in getting D back as they have enough.
Time to put all of this defensive depth to use.

I highly doubt they are trading Malkin. I think Shero simply signed Letang to protect the asset as he would have been a FA. Also, I think he is buying some time to see what he has in Pouliot, Dumoulin, Samlson, etc.. If any of them show promise next year, Shero will move Letang sometime soon. If none of the young D pan out, or at least nowhere near what Tanger is, he keeps him.

I'd love to pry Matt Martin from the Isles but unlikely. I think the Kings will look to shuffle some pieces this offseason. Very interested in some of their 3/4 line parts. King, Nolan, etc.. I always loved Brown but now he'll make too much $ and has been wildly inconsistent since their cup. Winnipeg - not big on Wheeler, Buff is a no go. Edm, Cal, Phx, Tor, Was, etc.. don't really have what we need.

I think the team to focus on is Vancouver.

I'd like to have the centerpieces of a deal be:

To Van: Despres, Sutter, Neal
To Pit: Kesler, Kassian

Throw in some other players, picks, etc.. to even it out perhaps.

Then, sign Mike Camalleri to something like $4mill or so. He plays with some edge even though he's on the small side.

Lines:

Kunitz/Sid/Gibbons
Cammy/Malkin/Bennett
Kassian/Kesler/Dupuis
Goc (or some other PK 4th line player)/Adams/Megna/Peyerl

Letang/Maatta
Martin/Scuds
Bortuzzo/Pouliot
Engelland/Harrington/Samlson

MAF/Zatkoff

I'd keep Gibbons w/Sid as he has some rapport with him. If it doesn't work out, just move Bennet or duper up. At the TDL next year, focus on a veteran D-man and/or a winger.

I don't want Stemps or Jokinen back. Too soft, no grit, no ballz. Let Orpik and Nisk walk. For as good as Nisk has been, let someone else overpay for him.

If you can get Cammy for $4mill, give Kassian $2-2.5 mill, this fits well under the cap.

The 3rd line of Kassian/Kesler/Dupes is a cup-winning 3rd line IMO.

Even if not the Vancouver deal, I think they need something similar in structure to this. Take our abundance of skill and turn that into forwards with grit and size. No need for a major rebuild IMO.

And, if Shero can trade Letang, all the better. I've been wanting Bortuzzo all year anyway. He has the one element to his game no one else in this soft-a** organization has: nastiness. If Letang is such a good puck-mover, why are we hemmed in our own end all the time? If he is such a good offensive d-man, how come he isn't on the #1 PP? Since his two main traits have been proven ineffective, why play him at this point? Hell, I'll trade him just to rid ourselves of the contract. Take that cap space and get some wingers. But, Shero has to first see the young D in action to get a better feel of what he has. I think that will occur early next year. So, I think Letang stays...for now.

Welcome back Goc you get to play with Adams and Glass.

IMO...

Pens need to change their roster makeup. Right now, too much skill, not enough grit. Simple as that.

I think they need to focus on turning Neal, Sutter, and Despres into some forwards with size, bulk, and some nasty. No point in getting D back as they have enough.
Time to put all of this defensive depth to use.

I highly doubt they are trading Malkin. I think Shero simply signed Letang to protect the asset as he would have been a FA. Also, I think he is buying some time to see what he has in Pouliot, Dumoulin, Samlson, etc.. If any of them show promise next year, Shero will move Letang sometime soon. If none of the young D pan out, or at least nowhere near what Tanger is, he keeps him.

I'd love to pry Matt Martin from the Isles but unlikely. I think the Kings will look to shuffle some pieces this offseason. Very interested in some of their 3/4 line parts. King, Nolan, etc.. I always loved Brown but now he'll make too much $ and has been wildly inconsistent since their cup. Winnipeg - not big on Wheeler, Buff is a no go. Edm, Cal, Phx, Tor, Was, etc.. don't really have what we need.

I think the team to focus on is Vancouver.

I'd like to have the centerpieces of a deal be:

To Van: Despres, Sutter, Neal
To Pit: Kesler, Kassian

Throw in some other players, picks, etc.. to even it out perhaps.

Then, sign Mike Camalleri to something like $4mill or so. He plays with some edge even though he's on the small side.

Lines:

Kunitz/Sid/Gibbons
Cammy/Malkin/Bennett
Kassian/Kesler/Dupuis
Goc (or some other PK 4th line player)/Adams/Megna/Peyerl

Letang/Maatta
Martin/Scuds
Bortuzzo/Pouliot
Engelland/Harrington/Samlson

MAF/Zatkoff

I'd keep Gibbons w/Sid as he has some rapport with him. If it doesn't work out, just move Bennet or duper up. At the TDL next year, focus on a veteran D-man and/or a winger.

I don't want Stemps or Jokinen back. Too soft, no grit, no ballz. Let Orpik and Nisk walk. For as good as Nisk has been, let someone else overpay for him.

If you can get Cammy for $4mill, give Kassian $2-2.5 mill, this fits well under the cap.

The 3rd line of Kassian/Kesler/Dupes is a cup-winning 3rd line IMO.

Even if not the Vancouver deal, I think they need something similar in structure to this. Take our abundance of skill and turn that into forwards with grit and size. No need for a major rebuild IMO.

And, if Shero can trade Letang, all the better. I've been wanting Bortuzzo all year anyway. He has the one element to his game no one else in this soft-a** organization has: nastiness. If Letang is such a good puck-mover, why are we hemmed in our own end all the time? If he is such a good offensive d-man, how come he isn't on the #1 PP? Since his two main traits have been proven ineffective, why play him at this point? Hell, I'll trade him just to rid ourselves of the contract. Take that cap space and get some wingers. But, Shero has to first see the young D in action to get a better feel of what he has. I think that will occur early next year. So, I think Letang stays...for now.
- 87_71_11_29

Giving up way to much for Kesler and why on earth would you put gibby on sids line if duper is available?

So how did Vokoun magically find success?
- Ryan_Wilson

Good question but actually not that difficult. His team actually tried this little trick called "assisting your goaltender" after they got a wake-up call from Flower getting benched. They played noticeably better team defense in front of Vokoun than they did Fleury. At least for the balance of the 1st round and most of the 2nd round, even though they did flake on him a few times too during the Sens series.

Additionally, there's also the fact that Fleury and Vokoun aren't the same person and therefore don't necessarily react identically to how the team plays in front of them. Vokoun was used to being on teams (Florida) where he didn't have much help in front of him and was mentally stronger to handle being left out to dry as often as the Pens have a tendency to do so.

Judging Fleury based on Vokoun's performance when the team played a different game in front of one than the other, and because their personalities are different is flawed logic. Fleury isn't a Barrasso or a Hasek where he can handle being left out to dry and be cool with giving up 4 goals and let them slide off. Vokoun is. And he might have been the better goaltender for the type of game the Pens wanted to play in front of him because of that. That doesn't make him a better goaltender. It makes him a better fit for a system that doesn't value bailing out your goaltender.

People are giving Ray a pass only because of two trades (Neal and Niskanen - Jokinen) and the way he has managed the cap to this point. He certainly has made questionable decisions in the last 1.5 years - trading all those assets for rentals last year; resigning Letang to this ludicrous contract. Let's face facts, if the cap drops to 68 million based on the declining Canadian dollar, we are screwed. That extension will screw us for a long time unless some dumb GM wants to take him.
- Oneonta Penguin

Yeah I don't give Ray a pass. Until more of his drafts become regulars, his picks have been questionable. There are 0 forward prospects, just a bunch of D and for whatever reason 1 cant crack the lineup ahead of England and Borts when they are crippled with injuries and inadequate play. The 3 major contracts will further hurt the depth. Scuds and Dupes contracts. This is a 2 line team and if opponents can shut down atleast 1 line, they have a chance.

So then... Shero isn't one of the greatest GMs anymore? I thought this opinion was laughable and blasphemous?

Yeah I don't give Ray a pass. Until more of his drafts become regulars, his picks have been questionable. There are 0 forward prospects, just a bunch of D and for whatever reason 1 cant crack the lineup ahead of England and Borts when they are crippled with injuries and inadequate play. The 3 major contracts will further hurt the depth. Scuds and Dupes contracts. This is a 2 line team and if opponents can shut down atleast 1 line, they have a chance.
- sammy87

Actually, there's a pretty reasonable explanation for them not cracking the lineup with the injuries. Cap management and waiver-exemptions. They didn't have very much wiggler room with who they could bring up or send down and they were also limited on both contract term ($$) and who had how many up-and-down trips left on their 2-way deals. I'm firmly in the belief that due to sheer number of injuries, there were a lot of call-ups and skipped call-up decisions based on cap management rather than who "deserves" a call-up. They were extremely tight all year on that front and there were a dozen moving parts that had to be played just right to keep them cap compliant as well as not burn someone's waiver-exemption status as well.

Good question but actually not that difficult. His team actually tried this little trick called "assisting your goaltender" after they got a wake-up call from Flower getting benched. They played noticeably better team defense in front of Vokoun than they did Fleury. At least for the balance of the 1st round and most of the 2nd round, even though they did flake on him a few times too during the Sens series.

Additionally, there's also the fact that Fleury and Vokoun aren't the same person and therefore don't necessarily react identically to how the team plays in front of them. Vokoun was used to being on teams (Florida) where he didn't have much help in front of him and was mentally stronger to handle being left out to dry as often as the Pens have a tendency to do so.

Judging Fleury based on Vokoun's performance when the team played a different game in front of one than the other, and because their personalities are different is flawed logic. Fleury isn't a Barrasso or a Hasek where he can handle being left out to dry and be cool with giving up 4 goals and let them slide off. Vokoun is. And he might have been the better goaltender for the type of game the Pens wanted to play in front of him because of that. That doesn't make him a better goaltender. It makes him a better fit for a system that doesn't value bailing out your goaltender.
- ScienceJesus

This is just one big excuse for MAF. The play in front of Vokoun was no different than in front of Fleury. The egregious gaffes were the only difference.

Giving up way to much for Kesler and why on earth would you put gibby on sids line if duper is available?
- dbell646

Because Gibby actually has some rapport w/Sid. I did say in the post if that didn't work, you could always move Duper or Bennet up to Sids line. Just trying to maximize Gibbons and not have the lines so top-heavy. I think its time for Crosby to actually make his wingers better.

Also, too much for Kesler? Perhaps. That's why I said throw in some other pieces to even it out a bit.

Actually, I don't know if Vancouver would make that trade. Think about it..Neal is a known cheap-shot artist and one-trick pony. Despres has been devalued over the past 2 years. Sutter has played well of late.

You need to include both Sutter and Neal to make the cap work. Do you want to pay Sutter north of $4million? I don't. Trade him now while his value is maximized.

I agree about PR, but I feel the possibility exists that Weber is moved for a package. Marek spoke about it for a while last week.
- Tiogadog

Nashville has already paid Weber $28M for a season and a half of work. His out-of-pocket expenses decrease as his deal goes on. No way they'd move him after investing that much for such a small body of work. Maybe in 4-5 years, but not now.

If the package is one of Crosby or Stamkos, then yes. Otherwise, they can't do it.

Welcome back Goc you get to play with Adams and Glass.
- dbell646

Poor bastard. Thought he was escaping the Panthers. Comes here and gets paired with guys that wouldn't even make the Panthers roster. Not exactly ideal for an UFA.

This is just one big excuse for MAF. The play in front of Vokoun was no different than in front of Fleury. The egregious gaffes were the only difference.
- Ryan_Wilson

It's far from an excuse for MAF. Some players fit some systems and some don't. It's call reality. Not every person reacts to situations the same. That doesn't make them better or worse, just better or worse for that system.

And they absolutely played a noticeably better back-checking game in front of Vokoun last year. The same way you could notice it when Johnny was in there before and for the first part of the season (after the first game) that Zatkoff played this year. You could see the team transitioning to defense and getting their feet moving more. Allowing fewer odd-man breaks or sustained attacks. They have been this way for a few years where you can see a marked difference in intensity whenever their backup is in there with attempting to help him out more.

And while I again like the use of the advanced statistics, I have to say man, it seems the deeper you get into using them, the more you are ignoring what your eyes tell you. Because if you don't see them not putting in a more concerted effort in front of the backup or even just skating harder because the stats don't tell you that, then you're ignoring your eyes here. The eye test still matters.

IMO...

Pens need to change their roster makeup. Right now, too much skill, not enough grit. Simple as that.

I think they need to focus on turning Neal, Sutter, and Despres into some forwards with size, bulk, and some nasty. No point in getting D back as they have enough.
Time to put all of this defensive depth to use.

I highly doubt they are trading Malkin. I think Shero simply signed Letang to protect the asset as he would have been a FA. Also, I think he is buying some time to see what he has in Pouliot, Dumoulin, Samlson, etc.. If any of them show promise next year, Shero will move Letang sometime soon. If none of the young D pan out, or at least nowhere near what Tanger is, he keeps him.

I'd love to pry Matt Martin from the Isles but unlikely. I think the Kings will look to shuffle some pieces this offseason. Very interested in some of their 3/4 line parts. King, Nolan, etc.. I always loved Brown but now he'll make too much $ and has been wildly inconsistent since their cup. Winnipeg - not big on Wheeler, Buff is a no go. Edm, Cal, Phx, Tor, Was, etc.. don't really have what we need.

I think the team to focus on is Vancouver.

I'd like to have the centerpieces of a deal be:

To Van: Despres, Sutter, Neal
To Pit: Kesler, Kassian

Throw in some other players, picks, etc.. to even it out perhaps.

Then, sign Mike Camalleri to something like $4mill or so. He plays with some edge even though he's on the small side.

Lines:

Kunitz/Sid/Gibbons
Cammy/Malkin/Bennett
Kassian/Kesler/Dupuis
Goc (or some other PK 4th line player)/Adams/Megna/Peyerl

Letang/Maatta
Martin/Scuds
Bortuzzo/Pouliot
Engelland/Harrington/Samlson

MAF/Zatkoff

I'd keep Gibbons w/Sid as he has some rapport with him. If it doesn't work out, just move Bennet or duper up. At the TDL next year, focus on a veteran D-man and/or a winger.

I don't want Stemps or Jokinen back. Too soft, no grit, no ballz. Let Orpik and Nisk walk. For as good as Nisk has been, let someone else overpay for him.

If you can get Cammy for $4mill, give Kassian $2-2.5 mill, this fits well under the cap.

The 3rd line of Kassian/Kesler/Dupes is a cup-winning 3rd line IMO.

Even if not the Vancouver deal, I think they need something similar in structure to this. Take our abundance of skill and turn that into forwards with grit and size. No need for a major rebuild IMO.

And, if Shero can trade Letang, all the better. I've been wanting Bortuzzo all year anyway. He has the one element to his game no one else in this soft-a** organization has: nastiness. If Letang is such a good puck-mover, why are we hemmed in our own end all the time? If he is such a good offensive d-man, how come he isn't on the #1 PP? Since his two main traits have been proven ineffective, why play him at this point? Hell, I'll trade him just to rid ourselves of the contract. Take that cap space and get some wingers. But, Shero has to first see the young D in action to get a better feel of what he has. I think that will occur early next year. So, I think Letang stays...for now.
- 87_71_11_29

YOU ARE GIVING WAY TOO MUCH TO VANCOUVER IN THAT DEAL. It's not funny. I love Kesler. But, do you really want another fragile piece? We have too many. We don't have the pieces to get Kesler. If we did, he would be a Penguin right now.

Yeah I don't give Ray a pass. Until more of his drafts become regulars, his picks have been questionable. There are 0 forward prospects, just a bunch of D and for whatever reason 1 cant crack the lineup ahead of England and Borts when they are crippled with injuries and inadequate play. The 3 major contracts will further hurt the depth. Scuds and Dupes contracts. This is a 2 line team and if opponents can shut down atleast 1 line, they have a chance.
- sammy87

The Dupes contract isn't bad. He still had it prior to the injury. Quite frankly, a healthy dupes makes this team much better. We could use him on the penalty kill right now. Sid has struggled a bit without him. That line of Kunitz, Sid and Dupes did some damage. Since then, Sid has had like 10 different wingers, including Pyatt for a few games.

Scuds contract isn't good; Letang's is worse.

You guys do realize that Letang is one year removed from a Norris nomination, right?

You guys do realize that Letang is one year removed from a Norris nomination, right?
- jmatchett383

Let's be honest with this. He was a finalist only because of his offensive flair. If not for that, he isn't close to being in the discussion. That award is now the best offensive minded Dman in the league. Erik Karlsson won it not too long ago and I don't think he is a good defenseman at all. Subban is in the running again and same with him.

Let's be honest with this. He was a finalist only because of his offensive flair. If not for that, he isn't close to being in the discussion. That award is now the best offensive minded Dman in the league. Erik Karlsson won it not too long ago and I don't think he is a good defenseman at all. Subban is in the running again and same with him.
- Oneonta Penguin

You really don't think Karlsson and Subban are good defensemen?

YOU ARE GIVING WAY TOO MUCH TO VANCOUVER IN THAT DEAL. It's not funny. I love Kesler. But, do you really want another fragile piece? We have too many. We don't have the pieces to get Kesler. If we did, he would be a Penguin right now.
- Oneonta Penguin

Would we really be giving up too much? A one trick cheapshot artist, overrated defensive prospect, and a soft 3rd line center who will command north of $4million this offseason as a RFA? I would argue that Vancouver would turn this deal down. Besides, you have to include Sutter and Neal for the cap #'s to work. Its about maximizing your cap $.

Also, is Kesler really that fragile? Looks like he plays almost full seasons to me?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3331/

In Shero's defense Fleury's 2007-2008 season was by far his best and if the Penguins had upset the Red Wings he probably would have won the Conn Smythe.
- Ryan_Wilson

yeah. i dont have a problem looking back on that signing in retrospect. like i said, i dont want to look at stats and see oh, hes been crap all along. hes just mentally not the same player anymore.

Poor bastard. Thought he was escaping the Panthers. Comes here and gets paired with guys that wouldn't even make the Panthers roster. Not exactly ideal for an UFA.
- madmike71

Sit Glass or Adams and insert Megna. The line would have a different look.

Megna-Goc-Adams

You really don't think Karlsson and Subban are good defensemen?
- BulliesPhan87

no, they aren't. To me, they are very good offensive-minded blueliners ... like Letang. I take Doughty, Keith, Weber, OEL, Chara, Kronwall, Pieterangelo off the top of my head over each one of them.

You guys do realize that Letang is one year removed from a Norris nomination, right?
- jmatchett383

im not saying hes garbage by any means when i say i would want to trade him. hes far from it. but its a totality of a lot of factors.

You guys do realize that Letang is one year removed from a Norris nomination, right?
- jmatchett383

He's a good player. He'll be fine. There are too many haters here. Too many.

I don't see anyone talking about how bad Crosby has played. Not even average.

Capgeek says he has a modified NTC. Not sure exactly what that means, but I'd imagine there's no way he accepts a deal to a bad team. He specifically said the big reason he came here was because of the proximity to his family.

Besides, if Ray Shero is still the GM and I fully believe he will be, He won't move him unless he wants to be moved. For better or worse, Ray is a very player friendly GM.
- madmike71

Yeah, Shero's hands are a bit tied, I think we might be stuck with Scuderi for at least another year.

Scuderi said in the summer that he either wanted to stay in LA, or move closer to his family (Long Island). He's gotta stay in the north east, and he's not going to a rebuild like Buffalo.

If Shero moves him, he really has to keep Scuderi happy. Buying out/Trading away UFA signings after one year has a ripple effect with agents and future UFA's. He did right by Michalek, and he will have to do the same with Scuderi.

The Pens might have to end up eating some money to move him too.

I think Vancouver would be all over a player like Neal, they want a sniper winger.

I would focus on something like Neal for Kesler....

From Pitt's vantage... Kes is a bit older yes... but he plays to win, he doesn't hot dog it with one arm on his stick and feet in cement like #18. #17 can play wing or centre, and not Jordan Staal wing, Kesler is good as a winger.

I would do a straight up deal for them. I do see Kesler having more value, Kes is signed for 2 years and Neal for 4, so Van is getting a plus there.