I just saw this article on Yahoo and me thinks it was a straight up copy of Ryan's blog and our comments.

http://sports.yahoo.com/b...ing-topics-135956057.html

Although it does add a twist of blaming Shero for believing in Fleury when it appeared that Fleury was about to become one of the better goalies in the league after the 08 season.

I just saw this article on Yahoo and me thinks it was a straight up copy of Ryan's blog and our comments.

http://sports.yahoo.com/b...ing-topics-135956057.html

Although it does add a twist of blaming Shero for believing in Fleury when it appeared that Fleury was about to become one of the better goalies in the league after the 08 season.


- PensFan1103

In Shero's defense Fleury's 2007-2008 season was by far his best and if the Penguins had upset the Red Wings he probably would have won the Conn Smythe.

I just saw this article on Yahoo and me thinks it was a straight up copy of Ryan's blog and our comments.

http://sports.yahoo.com/b...ing-topics-135956057.html

Although it does add a twist of blaming Shero for believing in Fleury when it appeared that Fleury was about to become one of the better goalies in the league after the 08 season.


- PensFan1103

He linked this article too. Pretty much in line with Ryan's opinion of the bottom half of the team.

http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=6761

I'm reading too much bad stuff about this team. I'm starting to get depressed...

He linked this article too. Pretty much in line with Ryan's opinion of the bottom half of the team.

http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=6761

I'm reading too much bad stuff about this team. I'm starting to get depressed...
- madmike71

Tyler Dellow is really good at what he does.

Looks like Goc is in on the fourth line. Vitale with Bennet and Sutter. Megna benched.

Not sure I like Vitale on the third line...

Also, I'm not hockey analyst but I'm yet to see Glass make an impact in this series.

Looks like Goc is in on the fourth line. Vitale with Bennet and Sutter. Megna benched.

Not sure I like Vitale on the third line...

Also, I'm not hockey analyst but I'm yet to see Glass make an impact in this series.
- Conse

C'mon now...Glass has impacted the boards...and few players at least...

Also, Letang thid pair with maata.
Scuderi second pair with niskanen.

Looks like Goc is in on the fourth line. Vitale with Bennet and Sutter. Megna benched.

Not sure I like Vitale on the third line...

Also, I'm not hockey analyst but I'm yet to see Glass make an impact in this series.
- Conse

Everyone on the internet is a hockey analyst, so don't cut yourself short.

Also, Letang thid pair with maata.
Scuderi second pair with niskanen.
- Conse

It's hard to split #2 and #3 but Scuderi has been terrible. Maybe Letang can play better with Määttä...I actually think it's a good idea since Disco Dan won't bench #4 and won't give a chance to Bortuzzo.

Since we are throwing them out there:

Malkin to Nashville for Weber and a first (or Forsberg)...


I do not want to see or think Malkin would be traded , but I could stomach that deal.

Since we are throwing them out there:

Malkin to Nashville for Weber and a first (or Forsberg)...


I do not want to see or think Malkin would be traded , but I could stomach that deal.
- Tiogadog

I don't think anyone wants to see Malkin go in a deal. Superstars like him aren't available usually. However, I think we might want to start thinking about the possibility based on the cap situation; our depth - or lack of depth and our failures in the play-offs since winning the Cup. Simply, what we have isn't working. Malkin brings in a haul.

In Shero's defense Fleury's 2007-2008 season was by far his best and if the Penguins had upset the Red Wings he probably would have won the Conn Smythe.
- Ryan_Wilson

I agree completely. I don't know how anyone can really go back and look at that deal at that time and blame Shero. The next year we then go out and win the Cup with Fleury so it looked outstanding right out of the gates. I don't think anyone back then would think that the Pens would go through the injury shenanigans they have gone through and that Fleury would have turned into such a fragile headcase, which for all we know the loss to Montreal and seeing how unbeatable Halak was and then the year after when we didn't have Crosby or Malkin could have messed with Fleury, making him think he had to be unbeatable. It's just so stupid that even with hindsight to try and say signing Fleury to the deal Shero signed him to was a stupid deal at that time.

I agree people need to calm down. It's a tied series. They haven't lost yet. The only guy that I'm absolutely convinced needs to be shown the door is Disco.

I don't get this infatuation with Mike Richards. Had a horrible year. Doesn't always show up. Expensive contract. Yuck. Dustin Brown, I like him, but another guy that had a horrible year. By the way, both of those guys have had some ugly incidents in their careers too.

I think Letang is virtually untradeable. His contract is about to skyrocket. Hasn't played well for two years. He has a health issue that could crop up at any time and force him into retirement. Nobody is dumb enough to give up good assets for that.

MAF might need to go, but the FA market isn't great.
- madmike71

Ageed on disco and letang
-scuderi needs to be traded or amnestied ... Most of us thought it was a good move ... We were wrong... Time to move on... Perhaps the money can be used to resign Orpik or nisk.
-fleury will take the blame, some of it fair, some unfair ... It may be time to move forward ... Trade of amnesty
-pens would be insane to trade Malkin... They will NEVER get equal value ... Unless Shea weber or Steve stamkos is coming back ... No no no
- Crosby, maata, Martin, Malkin, Kunitz are the core ... Everyone else ( including Neal) they should atleast listen on

I agree completely. I don't know how anyone can really go back and look at that deal at that time and blame Shero. The next year we then go out and win the Cup with Fleury so it looked outstanding right out of the gates. I don't think anyone back then would think that the Pens would go through the injury shenanigans they have gone through and that Fleury would have turned into such a fragile headcase, which for all we know the loss to Montreal and seeing how unbeatable Halak was and then the year after when we didn't have Crosby or Malkin could have messed with Fleury, making him think he had to be unbeatable. It's just so stupid that even with hindsight to try and say signing Fleury to the deal Shero signed him to was a stupid deal at that time.
- PensFan1103

MAF won 30 playoff games in two years. Signing him was justified. Short of entire psych team from Vienna looking at him, I have no clue what has happened to him.

I don't think anyone wants to see Malkin go in a deal. Superstars like him aren't available usually. However, I think we might want to start thinking about the possibility based on the cap situation; our depth - or lack of depth and our failures in the play-offs since winning the Cup. Simply, what we have isn't working. Malkin brings in a haul.
- Oneonta Penguin

I don't do anything that drastic without changing the coach and GM. I think Ray deserves some criticism for this roster. I've been saying for a couple of years now it's disappointing this team hasn't been able to draft and develop enough forwards to fill out the bottom 6.

Rays strategy for drafting so much D only works if they let those guys play and provide value. Thankfully Maatta is working out, but they still went out and spent money on Scuds when Despres or Bortz should have been given the spot. Could have used that money on a better bottom 6 player.

Since we are throwing them out there:

Malkin to Nashville for Weber and a first (or Forsberg)...


I do not want to see or think Malkin would be traded , but I could stomach that deal.
- Tiogadog

Not a chance Nashville does it, both for financial and PR reasons.

Ageed on disco and letang
-scuderi needs to be traded or amnestied ... Most of us thought it was a good move ... We were wrong... Time to move on... Perhaps the money can be used to resign Orpik or nisk.
-fleury will take the blame, some of it fair, some unfair ... It may be time to move forward ... Trade of amnesty
-pens would be insane to trade Malkin... They will NEVER get equal value ... Unless Shea weber or Steve stamkos is coming back ... No no no
- Crosby, maata, Martin, Malkin, Kunitz are the core ... Everyone else ( including Neal) they should atleast listen on
- Brianandr1

The only real option I see for Scuderi is trading him. The Pens can't use a compliance buyout on him since his contract was signed after 9/15/12. And using a normal buyout would still make him count against the cap for the next 6 years at the following amounts:

2014-15 $430,556
2015-16 $1,430,556
2016-17 $1,930,556
2017-18 $1,055,556
2018-19 $1,055,556
2019-20 $1,055,556

Do we really want to still be paying for this mistake for 6 years? I don't, but trading him is going to be very difficult I think. We are probably going to have to at least eat 1/3 of his salary to trade him, which is a better option than the buyout.

The only real option I see for Scuderi is trading him. The Pens can't use a compliance buyout on him since his contract was signed after 9/15/12. And using a normal buyout would still make him count against the cap for the next 6 years at the following amounts:

2014-15 $430,556
2015-16 $1,430,556
2016-17 $1,930,556
2017-18 $1,055,556
2018-19 $1,055,556
2019-20 $1,055,556

Do we really want to still be paying for this mistake for 6 years? I don't, but trading him is going to be very difficult I think. We are probably going to have to at least eat 1/3 of his salary to trade him, which is a better option than the buyout.
- PensFan1103

He may be tradeable to a team like Buffalo or Florida, a team with some young guys that could use a 2-time Cup winner and need to meet the cap floor.

Not a chance Nashville does it, both for financial and PR reasons.
- jmatchett383

I agree about PR, but I feel the possibility exists that Weber is moved for a package. Marek spoke about it for a while last week.

I don't do anything that drastic without changing the coach and GM. I think Ray deserves some criticism for this roster. I've been saying for a couple of years now it's disappointing this team hasn't been able to draft and develop enough forwards to fill out the bottom 6.

Rays strategy for drafting so much D only works if they let those guys play and provide value. Thankfully Maatta is working out, but they still went out and spent money on Scuds when Despres or Bortz should have been given the spot. Could have used that money on a better bottom 6 player.
- madmike71

People are giving Ray a pass only because of two trades (Neal and Niskanen - Jokinen) and the way he has managed the cap to this point. He certainly has made questionable decisions in the last 1.5 years - trading all those assets for rentals last year; resigning Letang to this ludicrous contract. Let's face facts, if the cap drops to 68 million based on the declining Canadian dollar, we are screwed. That extension will screw us for a long time unless some dumb GM wants to take him.

The only real option I see for Scuderi is trading him. The Pens can't use a compliance buyout on him since his contract was signed after 9/15/12. And using a normal buyout would still make him count against the cap for the next 6 years at the following amounts:

2014-15 $430,556
2015-16 $1,430,556
2016-17 $1,930,556
2017-18 $1,055,556
2018-19 $1,055,556
2019-20 $1,055,556

Do we really want to still be paying for this mistake for 6 years? I don't, but trading him is going to be very difficult I think. We are probably going to have to at least eat 1/3 of his salary to trade him, which is a better option than the buyout.
- PensFan1103

I could see Scuds rebounding next year if a coach with something resembling a defensively-sound system is brought in when/if Disco is let go. He's had success in defensively-sound systems because they play to his strengths and diminish his flaws. But Dan's system isn't built like the one he had when they won the cup or MT had installed prior to his dismissal. And it's nothing like the system used in LA either.

It's also the last time Flower had serious post-season success and can't be a coincidence. Same guys (albeit a few years older) being so drastically different the further away from a certain structure that they had success in slowly becoming less effective each year makes sense. Scuds had a huge drop-off from last year but about the same total effectiveness drop-off from 09 as Fleury has.

It's also the last time Flower had serious post-season success and can't be a coincidence. Same guys (albeit a few years older) being so drastically different the further away from a certain structure that they had success in slowly becoming less effective each year makes sense. Scuds had a huge drop-off from last year but about the same total effectiveness drop-off from 09 as Fleury has.
- ScienceJesus

So how did Vokoun magically find success?

He may be tradeable to a team like Buffalo or Florida, a team with some young guys that could use a 2-time Cup winner and need to meet the cap floor.
- jmatchett383

Capgeek says he has a modified NTC. Not sure exactly what that means, but I'd imagine there's no way he accepts a deal to a bad team. He specifically said the big reason he came here was because of the proximity to his family.

Besides, if Ray Shero is still the GM and I fully believe he will be, He won't move him unless he wants to be moved. For better or worse, Ray is a very player friendly GM.

He may be tradeable to a team like Buffalo or Florida, a team with some young guys that could use a 2-time Cup winner and need to meet the cap floor.
- jmatchett383

That is what I was thiking as well.

People are giving Ray a pass only because of two trades (Neal and Niskanen - Jokinen) and the way he has managed the cap to this point. He certainly has made questionable decisions in the last 1.5 years - trading all those assets for rentals last year; resigning Letang to this ludicrous contract. Let's face facts, if the cap drops to 68 million based on the declining Canadian dollar, we are screwed. That extension will screw us for a long time unless some dumb GM wants to take him.
- Oneonta Penguin

Disagree about the issue of trading the assets last year.

First, it wasn't exactly a huge haul they gave up and mostly things that would not be even potentially useful for us for 3-4 more years. And second, it's not that he necessarily got the WRONG pieces (though I'll give you Murray due to his sloth-like speed) as much as how those pieces were used to fit into the team puzzle, which is on Dan (though also on Ray for not putting his foot down and telling him to quit (frank)ing around and put Iggy at the proper position no matter whose feelings he hurts) more than anything mismanaging them