yes I get it.
currently the leafs are using the 100% eye/gut model ... and failing miserably
- senstroll

i agree

the best coaches utilize everything at their disposal.. the trick is finding the right balance for the group

So in watching a game you can't tell who's had the territorial play? I mean honestly you don't need statistics to tell you this.
- honesthockey

congrats on being able to store 2000+ games in your mind each season and recall what you need when you need it

So in watching a game you can't tell who's had the territorial play? I mean honestly you don't need statistics to tell you this.
- honesthockey

Of course not, on a game by game basis. The beauty of the stats is that it gives you an idea over a prolonged period of time, and thus allow you to identify trends and tendencies with a cool head, rather than in the heat of the battle...

in Montreal we just pay the refs.
- DoubleDown

huge slabs of smoked meat sitting in the refs dressing room

in Montreal we just pay the refs.
- DoubleDown

huge slabs of smoked meat sitting in the refs dressing room
- Dozzer

(frank), if I got paid in Schwartz's smoked meat, I'd probably throw the game as well!!

huge slabs of smoked meat sitting in the refs dressing room
- Dozzer

yum

I don't know why I haven't come around on advanced stats for hockey, I have for every other sport I enjoy especially baseball, maybe its because this was a sport I've played since I was 3 and was pretty good at that makes me think I know better.

i am talking about possession based on shot attempts.
- senstroll

And I question that as a viable metric. The quality of shot needs to be assessed deeply for it to be of absolute value. And honestly you can see zone time without numbers. Why doesn't the puck stay in the opposition zone? Weak non committed pinches at bad times with no support. Long own zone play? No puck retrieval. Look I get probability however in this sense team breakdown plays a major factor.

Of course not, on a game by game basis. The beauty of the stats is that it gives you an idea over a prolonged period of time, and thus allow you to identify trends and tendencies with a cool head, rather than in the heat of the battle...
- lumlums

You can see it over a prolonged period. Game by game assessment. We played a lot in our own end becomes a pretty common theme.

I don't know why I haven't come around on advanced stats for hockey, I have for every other sport I enjoy especially baseball, maybe its because this was a sport I've played since I was 3 and was pretty good at that makes me think I know better.
- Bigzby

A smart man admits that he has much to learn

I don't know why I haven't come around on advanced stats for hockey, I have for every other sport I enjoy especially baseball, maybe its because this was a sport I've played since I was 3 and was pretty good at that makes me think I know better.
- Bigzby

Works great for an individual sport like baseball. Team sports? To many factors.

You can see it over a prolonged period. Game by game assessment. We played a lot in our own end becomes a pretty common theme.
- honesthockey

Of course. We're saying the same thing here, just that I like seeing the numbers to go with it. They still have a way to go before they become complete as a metric, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done. And at the end of the day, the game still needs to be played

I don't know why I haven't come around on advanced stats for hockey, I have for every other sport I enjoy especially baseball, maybe its because this was a sport I've played since I was 3 and was pretty good at that makes me think I know better.
- Bigzby

Because you like the game and find it entertaining and enjoy the anticipation of the unknown - good or bad?

Of course. We're saying the same thing here, just that I like seeing the numbers to go with it. They still have a way to go before they become complete as a metric, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done. And at the end of the day, the game still needs to be played
- lumlums

I'd love to see the numbers as well. Only they need to be much more detailed to be anything other than what you see.

Barf.


In the lab, just waiting for science to happen. Hopefully it happens soon. Just sent out a manuscript to a major journal too, so if accepted this will help me go where I want to next
- lumlums

Science takes time...preheat the oven to 450, throw a bunch of poop in and see what happens. Worked for me

Hope it gets accepted

(frank), if I got paid in Schwartz's smoked meat, I'd probably throw the game as well!!
- lumlums

And I question that as a viable metric. The quality of shot needs to be assessed deeply for it to be of absolute value. And honestly you can see zone time without numbers. Why doesn't the puck stay in the opposition zone? Weak non committed pinches at bad times with no support. Long own zone play? No puck retrieval. Look I get probability however in this sense team breakdown plays a major factor.
- honesthockey

cool your system sound amazing

I dont care if you dismiss it all.. it really doesnt matter, I can see its only going to get worse for the anti-sats crowd.. Corsi is shown more an more, if you hate it find another hobby maybe.

Works great for an individual sport like baseball. Team sports? To many factors.
- honesthockey

Like pine tar on a pitchers neck...probability stats for that I'm sure.
Well, now there might be.

cool your system sound amazing

I dont care if you dismiss it all.. it really doesnt matter, I can see its only going to get worse for the anti-sats crowd.. Corsi is shown more an more, if you hate it find another hobby maybe.
- senstroll

Nooooooo Corsi is is shown by the media as their way of understanding the game. The same media who select a Norris trophy winner based on numbers.

I don't dismiss it. However I do challenge it.

Like pine tar on a pitchers neck...probability stats for that I'm sure.
Well, now there might be.
- Woderwick

George Brett. Had to come to the plate with his glove on bc it was stuck to him.

Nooooooo Corsi is is shown by the media as their way of understanding the game. The same media who select a Norris trophy winner based on numbers.
- honesthockey

if the media can change and I can change ... we all can change

I have no interest in awards... dont care who is nominated or wins

Science takes time...preheat the oven to 450, throw a bunch of poop in and see what happens. Worked for me

Hope it gets accepted
- RickJames77

Thanks bud

- Dozzer

Man, that's a photoshop MS Paint job that Ken would be proud of

if the media can change and I can change ... we all can change

I have no interest in awards... dont care who is nominated or wins
- senstroll

I believe in the value of advanced stats when it comes to team performance. How's that. Individuals? I can't accept it at this point. Way to many variables when 11 other individuals affect a single individuals numerical performance.

Btw the media were getting their asses handed to them. They now use numbers to try to show their knowledge of the game.

I think it became so apparent during the Olympics how they still can be embarrassed by an overall lack of understanding hockey. Babcock easily won any hockey discussion.