I like what Roy did in CO. Gets in a fight the 1st game and sets the tone. Other than MacCinnon the Avs really did nothing other than a coaching change and they almost won the west from last yr. Roy took control of the team and put his stamp on it.
- sammy87

Let's not forget, that Roy is working with a hungry and young team. That sort of thing plays well with young guys, but can get some eye rolls from veterans. Look at that whole Torts lockerroom thing against Calgary. Those verterans in Vancouver weren't buying it.

Just like Therrien in 2008-09. His message and tactics fell on deaf ears. Pens had fallen out of a playoff spot with him.

People have to stop pitying fleury.
It doesn't matter he bailed us out the whole game. If he leaves the net with 20 secs remaining and does what he did it's ON HIM.

Some ppl will say "oh but crosby and malkin haven't scored yet, what about them"
Well fortunately for them they are not the Penguins Goaltender. They are allowed to have bad games (even tough Malkin is not playing that bad). But goalies CAN NOT do what Fleury did and not be held accountable. It's an ungrateful job, every goalie know that and I'm sure Fleury knows it too. It doesn't matter if they play stellar for 59 minutes, if they have a meltdown on the final minute.

And to everybody saying he's fine. Seriously? The first shot of the OT he was just praying he had the puck because he had absolutely no idea where it was. After that everybody knew a soft goal was coming.

Okay, so I didn't really want to post this, being primarily a Flyers fan.

But, does anyone think that maybe, just maybe, Columbus is a better team, or at least a better playoff team, than Pittsburgh? I mean, MAF aside, their forecheck is outstanding, and I'm not sure Pittsburgh can do anything about it. It could just be that Columbus is more-or-less imposing their will on Pittsburgh.

Not saying they are, but it's a possibility, to me.

It's a combo of that and Roy. Do the Avalanche do what they are doing with that improvement and Sacco behind the bench?
- Oneonta Penguin

Honestly, no idea. can't say that I followed Colorado that close this year. Just saying that Colorado hit that point where its young, high draft picks turned the corner from being 'promising' to being NHL players.

EDIT - Also, McKinnion, Landeskog, & Duchene went 1st, 2nd, and 3rd overall in various NHL drafts. Just saying its not like Roy was working with a bunch of talentless scrubs.

Okay, so I didn't really want to post this, being primarily a Flyers fan.

But, does anyone think that maybe, just maybe, Columbus is a better team, or at least a better playoff team, than Pittsburgh? I mean, MAF aside, their forecheck is outstanding, and I'm not sure Pittsburgh can do anything about it. It could just be that Columbus is more-or-less imposing their will on Pittsburgh.

Not saying they are, but it's a possibility, to me.
- jmatchett383

Possible... we often confused most talented with better. Fact is that Columbus is playing better, so that makes them a better team. They have been ramping up to this with fighting for a playoff spot of the last few weeks of the season, while the Pens have been taking days off and resting guys.

And I wouldn't say that Columbus has been imposing their will on Pittsburgh. Play has been pretty even in this series, and we are tied at 2-2.

Let's not forget, that Roy is working with a hungry and young team. That sort of thing plays well with young guys, but can get some eye rolls from veterans. Look at that whole Torts lockerroom thing against Calgary. Those verterans in Vancouver weren't buying it.

Just like Therrien in 2008-09. His message and tactics fell on deaf ears. Pens had fallen out of a playoff spot with him.
- rival22

Torts is a joke, nobody has listened to him since 2003. Riding players into the dirt is not a tactic anymore.

Roys approach is hard work, accountability, and discipline. He will call players out when necessary, but hes not on the bench screaming at them like Torts. He also brings a lot of respect from his NHL career.

Okay, so I didn't really want to post this, being primarily a Flyers fan.

But, does anyone think that maybe, just maybe, Columbus is a better team, or at least a better playoff team, than Pittsburgh? I mean, MAF aside, their forecheck is outstanding, and I'm not sure Pittsburgh can do anything about it. It could just be that Columbus is more-or-less imposing their will on Pittsburgh.

Not saying they are, but it's a possibility, to me.
- jmatchett383

i dont know. i lack many tangible answers, but i really get a gutcheck reaction that just thinks no, they are not the better team. they are not a joke, but they are not the better team. i dont think it is ALL about a lack of effort, but i do think there is more in the tank to give in the trying department from the pens end.

but im just sitting here thinking, analyzing virtually every player and their role on the team moving forward. and i really just think fairly large changes have to be made.

Possible... we often confused most talented with better. Fact is that Columbus is playing better, so that makes them a better team. They have been ramping up to this with fighting for a playoff spot of the last few weeks of the season, while the Pens have been taking days off and resting guys.

And I wouldn't say that Columbus has been imposing their will on Pittsburgh. Play has been pretty even in this series, and we are tied at 2-2.
- rival22

if columbus had half of the hands to match their heart and hitting, theyd be up 3 to 1.

Torts is a joke, nobody has listened to him since 2003. Riding players into the dirt is not a tactic anymore.

Roys approach is hard work, accountability, and discipline. He will call players out when necessary, but hes not on the bench screaming at them like Torts. He also brings a lot of respect from his NHL career.
- sammy87

I'm just saying that a team with a core of players under 23 will be more receptive to a guy who has zero NHL coaching experience holding them accountable.

I'm not sure that Roy would have the same sort of impact on an older team.

Okay, so I didn't really want to post this, being primarily a Flyers fan.

But, does anyone think that maybe, just maybe, Columbus is a better team, or at least a better playoff team, than Pittsburgh? I mean, MAF aside, their forecheck is outstanding, and I'm not sure Pittsburgh can do anything about it. It could just be that Columbus is more-or-less imposing their will on Pittsburgh.

Not saying they are, but it's a possibility, to me.
- jmatchett383

If the Penguins gave enough effort to impose their will on the Jackets, this series would have ended last night. That is not Penguin fan arrogance; it is a matter of fact. The Penguins'talent level is superior to the Jackets'. This has been proven during spurts of this series. Right now, the problem is not one of the jackets being a better team; it is the Penguins not playing a full sixty minute game.

Then again, maybe by virtue of playing closer to a full sixty minute game Columbus is a better playoff team.

Possible... we often confused most talented with better. Fact is that Columbus is playing better, so that makes them a better team. They have been ramping up to this with fighting for a playoff spot of the last few weeks of the season, while the Pens have been taking days off and resting guys.

And I wouldn't say that Columbus has been imposing their will on Pittsburgh. Play has been pretty even in this series, and we are tied at 2-2.
- rival22

I really don't think the Pens are a playoff team. More talent yes, but that doesn't necessarly translate into playoff hockey. THeres a reason why some season ticket holders sell all their reg season games. Its only at 70%. Compare to Michael Vick, arguably the most talented and athletic NFL player in the league, or was a few yrs ago. But a complete douche and 0 work ethic=0 success. Malkin, hes not 100% all the time, when he is yeah best in the league, but hes not dropping bodies in the corners, same with Neal. Neal is good when someone sets him up for his shot. The rest of the time hes just average.

I'm just saying that a team with a core of players under 23 will be more receptive to a guy who has zero NHL coaching experience holding them accountable.

I'm not sure that Roy would have the same sort of impact on an older team.
- rival22

I agree and Im not saying hes the best coach ever, but he made a connection with the AVs and it worked pretty well. That team is 180 from last yr.

I really don't think the Pens are a playoff team. More talent yes, but that doesn't necessarly translate into playoff hockey. THeres a reason why some season ticket holders sell all their reg season games. Its only at 70%. Compare to Michael Vick, arguably the most talented and athletic NFL player in the league, or was a few yrs ago. But a complete douche and 0 work ethic=0 success. Malkin, hes not 100% all the time, when he is yeah best in the league, but hes not dropping bodies in the corners, same with Neal. Neal is good when someone sets him up for his shot. The rest of the time hes just average.
- sammy87

ill say this. yesterday, malkin showed some heart and hustle that i havent seen from him in a while. dude blocked at least 3 shots. was very good with possession. no tangible results really, but i was fine with him.

Okay, so I didn't really want to post this, being primarily a Flyers fan.

But, does anyone think that maybe, just maybe, Columbus is a better team, or at least a better playoff team, than Pittsburgh? I mean, MAF aside, their forecheck is outstanding, and I'm not sure Pittsburgh can do anything about it. It could just be that Columbus is more-or-less imposing their will on Pittsburgh.

Not saying they are, but it's a possibility, to me.
- jmatchett383

Can't sign off on this. To me, Columbus has a big edge behind the bench and in work ethic. Everything else favors Pittsburgh.

Bottom line, if Pittsburgh gave 70% effort instead of the 50%, this series is over. Columbus is out working the hell out of them. However, I feel there is a gear that Pittsburgh could elevate to and we haven't see it.

Can't sign off on this. To me, Columbus has a big edge behind the bench and in work ethic. Everything else favors Pittsburgh.

Bottom line, if Pittsburgh gave 70% effort instead of the 50%, this series is over. Columbus is out working the hell out of them. However, I feel there is a gear that Pittsburgh could elevate to and we haven't see it.
- Oneonta Penguin

i think there is another gear as well. that gear they have left might not elevate them past boston, but it should elevate them past columbus. the problem is, they have just always had this mentality that this gear is simply just a switch that can be turned on and off and generate immediate results.

i think there is another gear as well. that gear they have left might not elevate them past boston, but it should elevate them past columbus. the problem is, they have just always had this mentality that this gear is simply just a switch that can be turned on and off and generate immediate results.
- stayinthefnnet

It's a very dangerous game to play as far as thinking you can "flip that switch" anytime. We saw that switch in game three, trailing 3-1 and we saw it again with the start to game 4. The problem is that gear only lasts three minutes. What happens the last 57 minutes, when you are getting outplayed badly? Some real soul searching needs to be done between now and game 5. Do they want to advance, or end this season as a big failure?

i think there is another gear as well. that gear they have left might not elevate them past boston, but it should elevate them past columbus. the problem is, they have just always had this mentality that this gear is simply just a switch that can be turned on and off and generate immediate results.
- stayinthefnnet

Exactly. We've seen it in 10-20 minute spurts in each of the games but then they turn it off but can't find it again later. It's been that way each game so far.

They started the series in one gear and then in the 3rd period, ramped it up and won. They started the next game in that higher gear, got an early lead and then dropped back a gear because they figured they had it won and could coast. It cost them when they weren't able to get back to that gear later in the game. Games 3 and 4 were an exact repeat of games 1 and 2. They think it's a switch they can turn on and off, but it takes them a little while to get into that gear and when it yields positive results or maybe enough positive results, they feel like they can cut it back and take it easy and coast the rest of the way again.

It's a very dangerous game to play as far as thinking you can "flip that switch" anytime. We saw that switch in game three, trailing 3-1 and we saw it again with the start to game 4. The problem is that gear only lasts three minutes. What happens the last 57 minutes, when you are getting outplayed badly? Some real soul searching needs to be done between now and game 5. Do they want to advance, or end this season as a big failure?
- Oneonta Penguin

I'm not sure that they care enough about the result and that is the problem. They don't have that hunger to win right now. Like they figure they can put it off until it doesn't require as much work. Or their conditioning just is not nearly on the level that it needs to be as whole to skate that hard for that long.

I've been saying for a while that I think this team has rested on its laurels for a few years now. They had a reputation for being a fast & skilled team, even though they're not that fast anymore (either because of age or effort) and their complicated puck movements have too often been confused for skill more recently. They have a reputation that no longer applies to them but they still think they are that team because everyone says they're that team.

Crosby needs to put the cage back on.

I'm not sure that they care enough about the result and that is the problem. They don't have that hunger to win right now. Like they figure they can put it off until it doesn't require as much work. Or their conditioning just is not nearly on the level that it needs to be as whole to skate that hard for that long.

I've been saying for a while that I think this team has rested on its laurels for a few years now. They had a reputation for being a fast & skilled team, even though they're not that fast anymore (either because of age or effort) and their complicated puck movements have too often been confused for skill more recently. They have a reputation that no longer applies to them but they still think they are that team because everyone says they're that team.
- ScienceJesus

I can't find anything to honestly disagree with you on this.

Burma... you most likely know it as Myanmar
- Tiogadog

I got the reference.

I got the reference.
- acdc1206

Those countries all look the same.
Geographically, not by residents.

Burma/Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Antarctica...all the same.

Im full onboard the "Fire Bylsma" train now.

Yeah, Neal killed our momentum and that PP goal was the start of the downfall. Yeah Crosby and Malkin have been horrid.
Yeah Flower just sucked it up by the end of last night despite playing pretty stellar for all of the game.

But why, WHY do you let your team sit back on their heels like that in a playoff game?!?!? The Pens are not a shut down team. Any time we take our foot off the gas and try to go into a shell, we lose. And to take your foot off the gas in a playoff game where the opposing goaltender was looking pretty shaky?

Sorry, thats absolutely unacceptable. Bylsma should have called his TO at some point and reamed these guys out for playing that way long before that 3rd goal is scored. I put more blame on him than anyone else for the disaster that was last night.

As far as I'm concerned the better team is the one who wins the series. If the pens win with dazzling goals and superior skill then they are better, if CBJ win by forechecking and dirty goals they are the better team. I don't care about possession stats or any of that garbage whoever wins is the better team period. That being said I think the pens will eventually win because of skill, but each of the two scenarios is possible.

Im full onboard the "Fire Bylsma" train now.

Yeah, Neal killed our momentum and that PP goal was the start of the downfall. Yeah Crosby and Malkin have been horrid.
Yeah Flower just sucked it up by the end of last night despite playing pretty stellar for all of the game.

But why, WHY do you let your team sit back on their heels like that in a playoff game?!?!? The Pens are not a shut down team. Any time we take our foot off the gas and try to go into a shell, we lose. And to take your foot off the gas in a playoff game where the opposing goaltender was looking pretty shaky?

Sorry, thats absolutely unacceptable. Bylsma should have called his TO at some point and reamed these guys out for playing that way long before that 3rd goal is scored. I put more blame on him than anyone else for the disaster that was last night.
- thickman1178

Bylsma wants to be friends with everyone and live through their glory. He lives vicariously through Sid, sees himself as Adams so he always puts him in situations where he himself would have wanted to play. Its a joke.