While I agree that Turris is a more well-rounded centre, I'm not sure that we can rely on him, Mika, Smith and one of JGP/Lazar/Grant/SDC to fill that gap. I suppose if we can get a top winger or two, and a top D man, it might make up for it. Then it's about the money again.

For all the in-depth analysis, I haven't seen Travis actually say 'This is what I'd do.' What would his ideal lineup look like for this mid-low cap team? I know we were playing with Capgeek last week, but that was looking for the cheapest team. This is different. What should this team look like in October to be competitive and within the internal budget? Let's say 56.5MM, same as it is right now.
- Stringer74

Good point. But I think everybody needs to keep the budget in perspective. By the time you extend Ryan, MacArthur, Zibanejad, Methot and Anderson by next summer you have probably boosted the cap hit to around $67m.

What I don't understand are the people who jump on the idea of resigning Spezza and Hemsky and say, for example, you add another $13m on the cap hit? Who do you want to let go next summer? Clearly, I am not a fan of Melnyk. But, in this instance Murray appears to be making the right choices in putting the salary budget on a solid footing.

Here is my stab at a trade ,Clarkson half cap hit and salary retained by the leafs for the duration of that contract.And their 1st round pick .For Jason Spezza cap hit retained by ottawa this season.

Clarkson at 5.2 in your top 6 was never gonna work ,But Clarkson in a bottom 6 role at say 2.6 mil isnt bad at all
- top shelf 15

murray will never send his captain and top line center to the leafs.

spezza may end up with the leafs (doubt it, but possible) but it won't be murray who trades him there.

i also think spezza is worth more than an average 3rd liner and a 1st in a weak draft

murray will never send his captain and top line center to the leafs.

spezza may end up with the leafs (doubt it, but possible) but it won't be murray who trades him there.
- sensarmy_11

Spezza lives there in the offseason ,BM has done solids for good team guys in the past .The leafs want an upgrade for phil ,and while they wouldnt be completely off the hook for the clarkson deal ,it would give them some breathing room moving forward

murray will never send his captain and top line center to the leafs.

spezza may end up with the leafs (doubt it, but possible) but it won't be murray who trades him there.
- sensarmy_11

Sry DP

Here is my stab at a trade ,Clarkson half cap hit and salary retained by the leafs for the duration of that contract.And their 1st round pick .For Jason Spezza cap hit retained by ottawa this season.

Clarkson at 5.2 in your top 6 was never gonna work ,But Clarkson in a bottom 6 role at say 2.6 mil isnt bad at all
- top shelf 15

I agree. But, I would change the #1 for Kadri. Toronto needs to move salary. Murray appears to like Clarkson and there are lots of guys who believe he just had an off year starting with the 10 game suspension. How can the guy possibly succeed when the idiot Toronto media headlines their introduction of him as "Wendell Clarkson"

Spezza lives there in the offseason ,BM has done solids for good team guys in the past .The leafs want an upgrade for phil ,and while they wouldnt be completely off the hook for the clarkson deal ,it would give them some breathing room moving forward

- top shelf 15

sending fisher (who's realistically an avg 2nd liner) to nashville (who's in another conf) is not the same as sending a top line center to a hated division rival

sending fisher (who's realistically an avg 2nd liner) to nashville (who's in another conf) is not the same as sending a top line center to a hated division rival
- sensarmy_11

So, do you really think Spezza would deliver a different game or result if he played in Toronto. Perhaps a Spezza to Toronto deal by Murray is regarded more as a poison pill transaction.

I agree. But, I would change the #1 for Kadri. Toronto needs to move salary. Murray appears to like Clarkson and there are lots of guys who believe he just had an off year starting with the 10 game suspension. How can the guy possibly succeed when the idiot Toronto media headlines their introduction of him as "Wendell Clarkson"
- spatso

Clarkson is a good bottom 6 guy ,he would look great in our bottom 6 .Gives us some more sandpaper and can produce 10 to 15 goals.That being said he isnt worth 5.2 mil a season ,but at around 2.6 he is worth it .

As for whatever else that would be thrown in ,its all a guess spats .But the framework for a hockey trade between the two rivials is there

sending fisher (who's realistically an avg 2nd liner) to nashville (who's in another conf) is not the same as sending a top line center to a hated division rival
- sensarmy_11

Meh iam ok with Spezza playing there ,we had his best years

I think you are way off the mark in your understanding of Turris' game. He is the complete 200' player. As good defensively as he is in the defensive end. Insiders rave about his game and the positive impact he has on his line mates.

In terms of career growth he seems to be very similar to Patrice Bergeron. In fact, if you look at his numbers he is well ahead of Bergeron at a similar place and time in his career.

Turris is not the issue. The concern for the Senators has to be if a Krejci exists in the up and coming Senators roster (Zibanejad, Lazar).
- spatso

I'll respond to this post, but it also relates to sensarmy_11 saying I undervalue his game.

I totally under what Turris brings to this team. I have said many a time that he is a very good player. I just see his ceiling being a 2nd line centre, and a pretty good one at that. He has a great overall game, but in my opinion lacks pure offensive instincts that most "1st line centres" have.

I don't understand what you're talking about when you say Turris is at a similar place as Bergeron was as Bergeron had back to back 70+ point seasons in his 2nd and 3rd years in the league, and let's not forget Bergeron was not always the defensive forward he is now. He adjusted him game to be successful the way he is now. I'm not saying Turris development isn't good, it is, but much different than Bergeron's.

I think a little too much is made of a full 2-way game. You need those guys for sure. But nothing wrong with guys that think more about defence or more about offence. Well, I guess it is actually.....

I don't understand what you're talking about when you say Turris is at a similar place as Bergeron was as Bergeron had back to back 70+ point seasons in his 2nd and 3rd years in the league, and let's not forget Bergeron was not always the defensive forward he is now. He adjusted him game to be successful the way he is now. I'm not saying Turris development isn't good, it is, but much different than Bergeron's.


- Gord_Wilson_2.0

this sort of speaks to my point about turris.

early in his career, bergeron focused pretty much on offense, put up a few extra points, but was never thought of as a great player. he basically ignored the defensive third of the ice (which is what spezza does).

once bergeron learned to play a full game, his point totals dropped by about 10 or so (putting him in the high 50's to low 60's, which is where turris is now)....but all of a sudden, he was an olympian, selke winner, and though of as a great player.

ottawa has two players like that, in turris and zibby. one is pretty much there right now, and one (at the age of 20) has shown that he's well on his way.

personally, i think having two guys like that in your top six means that MAYBE you score a few goals less throughout the course of the season, but it's MORE than offset by how many fewer goals you give up.

and that's assuming that none of our centers turn into 70-80pt players. i means zibby has been putting up a near 0.5ppg pace, playing extremely limited minutes, on the 4th line, with plugs as linemates. when he's been given the chance to play top six minutes, he's looked EXCELLENT.

personally, moving forward, i feel better about this team with turris and zibby PLUS the assets we get for spezza filling other holes....then giving spezza a 7 year 49 mil deal, completely handicapping the teams ability to fix other more dire areas.

to each their own i guess, but i think moving spezza is in the long term best interests of this team.

I'll respond to this post, but it also relates to sensarmy_11 saying I undervalue his game.

I totally under what Turris brings to this team. I have said many a time that he is a very good player. I just see his ceiling being a 2nd line centre, and a pretty good one at that. He has a great overall game, but in my opinion lacks pure offensive instincts that most "1st line centres" have.

I don't understand what you're talking about when you say Turris is at a similar place as Bergeron was as Bergeron had back to back 70+ point seasons in his 2nd and 3rd years in the league, and let's not forget Bergeron was not always the defensive forward he is now. He adjusted him game to be successful the way he is now. I'm not saying Turris development isn't good, it is, but much different than Bergeron's.

I think a little too much is made of a full 2-way game. You need those guys for sure. But nothing wrong with guys that think more about defence or more about offence. Well, I guess it is actually.....
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Past 3 years Bergeron has scored at the rate of .778 ppg and .305 gpg. Turris scored at 648 ppg and .279 gpg. I realize Bergeron is a high standard. Will Turris be as good as he is, perhaps not. But he plays the kind of game that allows teams to win championships.

this sort of speaks to my point about turris.

early in his career, bergeron focused pretty much on offense, put up a few extra points, but was never thought of as a great player. he basically ignored the defensive third of the ice (which is what spezza does).

once bergeron learned to play a full game, his point totals dropped by about 10 or so (putting him in the high 50's to low 60's, which is where turris is now)....but all of a sudden, he was an olympian, selke winner, and though of as a great player.

ottawa has two players like that, in turris and zibby. one is pretty much there right now, and one (at the age of 20) has shown that he's well on his way.

personally, i think having two guys like that in your top six means that MAYBE you score a few goals less throughout the course of the season, but it's MORE than offset by how many fewer goals you give up.

and that's assuming that none of our centers turn into 70-80pt players. i means zibby has been putting up a near 0.5ppg pace, playing extremely limited minutes, on the 4th line, with plugs as linemates. when he's been given the chance to play top six minutes, he's looked EXCELLENT.

personally, moving forward, i feel better about this team with turris and zibby PLUS the assets we get for spezza filling other holes....then giving spezza a 7 year 49 mil deal, completely handicapping the teams ability to fix other more dire areas.

to each their own i guess, but i think moving spezza is in the long term best interests of this team.
- sensarmy_11

We are entirely on the same page.

So, do you really think Spezza would deliver a different game or result if he played in Toronto. Perhaps a Spezza to Toronto deal by Murray is regarded more as a poison pill transaction.
- spatso

i think he would deliver the exact same as he does in ottawa.....only with better linemates (assuming he'd play with kessel and JVR) he'd obviously put up more points. his defense would be as bad, or possibly worse (i think his linemates in toronto would all be as offensively focused as he is).

i think in toronto, spezza would be a point producing, defensive liability.....exactly like he is in ottawa.

and that's what he is, and that's fine. my issue with moving him to the leafs is that he'll be producing those points against ottawa, 6+ times per season......and considering how he's been treated by the organization, i'm assuming he'll have some extra incentive to play hard.

i think he would deliver the exact same as he does in ottawa.....only with better linemates (assuming he'd play with kessel and JVR) he'd obviously put up more points. his defense would be as bad, or possibly worse (i think his linemates in toronto would all be as offensively focused as he is).

i think in toronto, spezza would be a point producing, defensive liability.....exactly like he is in ottawa.

and that's what he is, and that's fine. my issue with moving him to the leafs is that he'll be producing those points against ottawa, 6+ times per season......and considering how he's been treated by the organization, i'm assuming he'll have some extra incentive to play hard.
- sensarmy_11

But if you got Kadri and Clarkson in return, would they not have offsetting incentives the other way?

But if you got Kadri and Clarkson in return, would they not have offsetting incentives the other way?
- spatso

i'm not even gonna address clarkson.....he's an older and more expensive version of greening.

as for kadri.....why would ottawa want him. he's DEFINITELY behind turris, and IMO would be behind zibby as well. zibby is far better defensively, and only had 16 less pts, playing 20 less games, on the 4th line (while kadri spent the whole season in the top six).

kadri isn't an upgrade over either guy, so why the hell would the sens want him.

trading spezza is an opportunity to address some of the deficiencies this team has.....bringing in clarkson and kadri doesn't do that, better off just keeping spezza.

Pshhh

Spezza's the best player on the team…

If you cant see that youre dumber than anne frank
- conor_smythe

Lol, I guess that one was over your head.. get some culture and you'll understand the reference
- conor_smythe

Do you mean Anne Frank (a Jewish girl who was killed during the Holocaust, but whose diary survived) or Helen Keller (became deaf and blind after birth yet still managed to complete a BA)...
'Cuz I can't tell if you're making fun of the disabled or being anti-Semitic. Either way, you seem like a real great guy

We are entirely on the same page.
- spatso

Obviously, that's how the internet works

But if you got Kadri and Clarkson in return, would they not have offsetting incentives the other way?
- spatso

They can keep Clarkson. IMO, Kadri might make a better winger than C. Start with Kadri and Gardiner.

Trading with Toronto is ludicrous anyway. Does anyone think that would really happen?

Trading with Toronto is ludicrous anyway. Does anyone think that would really happen?
- Stringer74

i think there is a better chance murray reacquires heatley, and trades for yashin's buyout cap hit

i think there is a better chance murray reacquires heatley, and trades for yashin's buyout cap hit
- sensarmy_11

I am of the opinion that Toronto is the best place for Spezza. They have said they want to improve their defensive play and cut down on the it goals against. It seems to me that Spezza would be a good starting point for them in a Toronto sort of way.

getting culture will allow me to understand you calling people "dumber than anne frank"?



man, you make me miss prock. at least his stupidity stems from a desire to troll.
- sensarmy_11

Yeah Army, get more culture so you can say others are as dumb as victims of Nazi germany.

I feel like maybe he meant Helen Keller, which would have only been insensitive, rather than outright stupid.

I really wish some people would stop inflating Turris's stats. He didn't even get 60 points let alone "70ish". To me a first line centre is a guy you can rely on to put out there to score points, first and foremost. The teams you mentioned have 1st line centres that are in Spezza's league and out of Turris's league, at the moment. Their overall game looks a lot better thanks to the tremendous offensive and defensive depth that those teams have that we unfortunately don't. Put Turris on those teams and he probably doesn't even get a crack at top 6 minutes.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Turris would easily break 70 points if he was getting the extra shift of power play time and 5 more ofensive zone starts per game, instead of Spezza.

I am of the opinion that Toronto is the best place for Spezza. They have said they want to improve their defensive play and cut down on the it goals against. It seems to me that Spezza would be a good starting point for them in a Toronto sort of way.
- spatso

The thing about Spezza people arent realising,is that he lives in Toronto during the offseason and wants to play there.Him resigning with them is a non issue .People think Clarkson at half price and say a top 10 pick is a bad deal ,but in reality it isnt .BM did say he wants some grit in his top 9 ,and a player that is willing to stick up for teamates.

Clarkson fits this bill to a tee,he can play the enforcer role as well as pot 10 to 15 goals . He would help our bottom 6 and provide a deterent in a situational top 6 role

They can keep Clarkson. IMO, Kadri might make a better winger than C. Start with Kadri and Gardiner.

Trading with Toronto is ludicrous anyway. Does anyone think that would really happen?
- Stringer74

True. Zibanejad has great numbers for a second year player. In addition, Lazar will make this team next year and log a reasonable amount of ice. Just think Kadri would thrive in the positive Ottawa culture. Toronto is an awful place for a young player to break in.