Then why hang onto him? Makes zero sense. If they all feel he did a poor job then let him go. Why wait?

I honestly think Carlyle gave up trying to play his style with a lineup that couldn't play it, so he changed things up to match his lineup after the deadline. Basically a FU Nonis.
- honesthockey

I think shanny and the gang are evaluating their options right now. Brainstorm a succession plan before making a decision.

I reaaaallllyyy hope that we hire Barry Trotz. Making the playoffs 7 out of 10 years is a pretty damn good record, especially with what he had to work with over the course of his tenure.
- ThePresident

How many of those playoff series did he win??

How many of those playoff series did he win??



- faceto27

Does not matter, the fact that he got his mediocre teams to play above their potential is what sticks out to me. I think he would fare better with the Leafs, able to carry them deeper into the playoffs. More tools, and skill to work with. When it comes to the playoffs, you either have the players or you don't.

Does not matter, the fact that he got his mediocre teams to play above their potential is what sticks out to me. I think he would fare better with the Leafs, able to carry them deeper into the playoffs. More tools, and skill to work with. When it comes to the playoffs, you either have the players or you don't.
- ThePresident

It was 15 years and he missed the playoffs 8 times, knocked out round one 5 times and never made it past round 2. He had at one point two of the best defensmen in the game. Not convinced on this guy.

Does not matter, the fact that he got his mediocre teams to play above their potential is what sticks out to me. I think he would fare better with the Leafs, able to carry them deeper into the playoffs. More tools, and skill to work with. When it comes to the playoffs, you either have the players or you don't.
- ThePresident

Suter and Weber are not mediocre talent. Easily two of the top 5 defenseman in the league. And when they both play close to 30 mins a game, and you have a top notch goalie that carries a team a long way.

Then say that. Tell us you recognize a problem. In on Vanek tells me he doesn't see it. So Carlyle showed him.
- honesthockey

All I'm saying is I'm pretty sure the Leafs were looking at options other than Vanek, even if they don't go out and tell the media what they talked about. A rumour that the Leafs had a phone convo about Vanek just tells me they chatted about Vanek. I'm sure they talked about D too. For the most fishbowled team in the league, a lot of Leaf deals come out of nowhere, they keep trade negotiations under the cone for the most part.

It was 15 years and he missed the playoffs 8 times, knocked out round one 5 times and never made it past round 2. He had at one point two of the best defensmen in the game. Not convinced on this guy.
- honesthockey

Go figure....... I actually agree with you here

Suter and Weber are not mediocre talent. Easily two of the top 5 defenseman in the league. And when they both play close to 30 mins a game, and you have a top notch goalie that carries a team a long way.
- faceto27

Who developed those guys once they came into the NHL?

I think shanny and the gang are evaluating their options right now. Brainstorm a succession plan before making a decision.
- lumlums

Shanahan was Carlyles roommate at one point. Not sure he'd hang him out to dry. If he deems Carlyle is the problem and must go then he should have done it.

Does not matter, the fact that he got his mediocre teams to play above their potential is what sticks out to me. I think he would fare better with the Leafs, able to carry them deeper into the playoffs. More tools, and skill to work with. When it comes to the playoffs, you either have the players or you don't.
- ThePresident

I do some what agree,but what does he do to some of our offensive players?Does he hurt them?

Does not matter, the fact that he got his mediocre teams to play above their potential is what sticks out to me. I think he would fare better with the Leafs, able to carry them deeper into the playoffs. More tools, and skill to work with. When it comes to the playoffs, you either have the players or you don't.
- ThePresident

And furthermore........ the very coach you want to get rid of, won the Stanley Cup when he had two of the best defenseman in the game playing for him.

Who developed those guys once they came into the NHL?
- ThePresident

RC didn't develop Nieds and Pronger, but he won the Stanley Cup with them.

It was 15 years and he missed the playoffs 8 times, knocked out round one 5 times and never made it past round 2. He had at one point two of the best defensmen in the game. Not convinced on this guy.
- honesthockey

Made the playoffs 7 times in the last 10 years, with mediocre talent. Yes, he had Shea Weber.

All I'm saying is I'm pretty sure the Leafs were looking at options other than Vanek, even if they don't go out and tell the media what they talked about. A rumour that the Leafs had a phone convo about Vanek just tells me they chatted about Vanek. I'm sure they talked about D too. For the most fishbowled team in the league, a lot of Leaf deals come out of nowhere, they keep trade negotiations under the cone for the most part.
- Zezel

Oh hey I agree with you but in this instance it was a non trade so let us know you're alive and tried. Team died after the deadline and he's pointing fingers?!?!

And furthermore........ the very coach you want to get rid of, won the Stanley Cup when he had two of the best defenseman in the game playing for him.
- faceto27

Already fully developed defenders, in their prime. Not exactly impressive.

And furthermore........ the very coach you want to get rid of, won the Stanley Cup when he had two of the best defenseman in the game playing for him.
- faceto27

the rapid demise of the leafs shows that there is a serious problem with the culture of the team

Made the playoffs 7 times in the last 10 years, with mediocre talent. Yes, he had Shea Weber.
- ThePresident

What are you basing mediocre talent on? Points?

the rapid demise of the leafs shows that there is a serious problem with the culture of the team
- Flyfreaky

Correct. And sitting on your hands as the GM is unacceptable.

RC didn't develop Nieds and Pronger, but he won the Stanley Cup with them.
- faceto27

Exactly my point. That's not impressive, he stepped into a good situation. Already old established defenders. Barry Trotz has brought a lot of young talent along, which is also exactly what the Leafs need as well.

Already fully developed defenders, in their prime. Not exactly impressive.
- ThePresident

Thats exactly the point i'm making. You are blaming RC, and that Trotz is going to make this better with the mediocre talent it has.

Trotz, not only had Weber, but he had some stiff named Suter there. He also had a world class goalie.

Bottom line, he had his ass handed to him in the playoffs.

What are you basing mediocre talent on? Points?
- honesthockey

His teams played above their potential.

You are an odd person.
- Feeling Glucky?

I'm odd? That's hilarious, you were the one posting pics of 14 year sluts wearing spandex claiming that those were pics of Weirdoh. So I think you should be claimed the King Of Odd in this thread. C'mon buddy, those pics were of underage girls.

His teams played above their potential.
- ThePresident

Based on what?

Exactly my point. That's not impressive, he stepped into a good situation. Already old established defenders. Barry Trotz has brought a lot of young talent along, which is also exactly what the Leafs need as well.
- ThePresident

I will counter that....... Kessel pre RC days was useless defensively. He was known mainly as a sniper, period. Under RC he started playing all 200' of the ice, and became a playmaker.

RC has his faults, but don't think Trotz would have more sucess with this group of defenseman. Aside from Phaneuf and Rielly, you can cast the rest of them out to sea, and they'd all sink.

Correct. And sitting on your hands as the GM is unacceptable.
- honesthockey

I agree, I thought nonis did a good job during last off season by not making tons of moves, but he failed miserably throughout the season by not addressing issues and making some moves to provide a healthy culture