51 free day today how's that. I can only keep my fingers crossed he's gone before next season.

Nonis won't see this draft as a Leaf btw but Carlyle will.
- honesthockey

Deal.

Even if others come and start something you have to turn the other cheek

And dear god I hope not...

@Hope_Smoke: Shanahan with Paul Hendrick "There are some good pieces here. Sometimes pieces are misused or mismanaged" - A sign that Carlyle is on the way out...?

Deal.

Even if others come and start something you have to turn the other cheek

And dear god I hope not...

@Hope_Smoke: Shanahan with Paul Hendrick "There are some good pieces here. Sometimes pieces are misused or mismanaged" - A sign that Carlyle is on the way out...?
- lumlums

I'll be praying..

Deal.

Even if others come and start something you have to turn the other cheek

And dear god I hope not...

@Hope_Smoke: Shanahan with Paul Hendrick "There are some good pieces here. Sometimes pieces are misused or mismanaged" - A sign that Carlyle is on the way out...?
- lumlums

How do you know he meant Carlyle?

Post deadline.

Nonis "no Randy I did not get you the type of players you wanted, play what you have to their strengths"

Carlyle "ok Dave let's try it your way"

Shanahan "so Dave, Randy tells me he knew he couldn't win with this lineup and asked for a few changes. What happened?"

If Leaf management really felt players were misused or mismanaged on ice, then Carlyle would be gone. It would be an easy firing. The fact that they want to look deeper leads me to believe they think it's a different issue. And player related. That's on Nonis.

How do you know he meant Carlyle?

Post deadline.

Nonis "no Randy I did not get you the type of players you wanted, play what you have to their strengths"

Carlyle "ok Dave let's try it your way"

Shanahan "so Dave, Randy tells me he knew he couldn't win with this lineup and asked for a few changes. What happened?"
- honesthockey

Nonis got him Raymond. Raymond screams out hardworking, defensive minded and physical.

If Leaf management really felt players were misused or mismanaged on ice, then Carlyle would be gone. It would be an easy firing. The fact that they want to look deeper leads me to believe they think it's a different issue. And player related. That's on Nonis.
- honesthockey

This is how I see it as well.

Nonis built the team poorly.

This is how I see it as well.

Nonis built the team poorly.
- Tumbleweed

While this mostly is a Burke built team, I blame Nonis for not seeing what everyone else sees and in the very least slowly fixing it. One or two defensmen at the deadline could have made the world of difference.

How do you know he meant Carlyle?

Post deadline.

Nonis "no Randy I did not get you the type of players you wanted, play what you have to their strengths"

Carlyle "ok Dave let's try it your way"

Shanahan "so Dave, Randy tells me he knew he couldn't win with this lineup and asked for a few changes. What happened?"
- honesthockey

How do I suspect its Carlyle? Because he said that the pieces (i.e. players) have been mismanaged, not that we don't have the right pieces (which we don't completely). It infers that the group we have, flawed as it is, is capable of better. And instead of scratching his head as to why, shanny is putting that scratchin' finger to use by pointing it at randy...

While this mostly is a Burke built team, I blame Nonis for not seeing what everyone else sees and in the very least slowly fix it. One or two defensmen at the deadline could have made the world of difference.
- honesthockey

True but on the other hand Leafs may have done well to not overpay at the deadline when they weren't contenders...sometimes you need something longterm but should shop carefully over a period of time and pick your deal. Nonis was shopping for Bernier for a long time and got a deal that'll pay off for years instead of just one stretch drive.

How do I suspect its Carlyle? Because he said that the pieces (i.e. players) have been mismanaged, not that we don't have the right pieces (which we don't completely). It infers that the group we have, flawed as it is, is capable of better. And instead of scratching his head as to why, shanny is putting that scratchin' finger to use by pointing it at randy...
- lumlums

Carlyle is a piece that may have been mismanaged as well.

If he was pointing at Carlyle then he had his answer so it would have been easy to make the change. Why hang on if you have your problem?

True but on the other hand Leafs may have done well to not overpay at the deadline when they weren't contenders...sometimes you need something longterm but should shop carefully over a period of time and pick your deal. Nonis was shopping for Bernier for a long time and got a deal that'll pay off for years instead of just one stretch drive.
- Zezel

While I agree you can't overpay out of haste why would you need too? Other teams have requirements as well. Make a hockey trade. Good for both teams.

While I agree you can't overpay out of haste why would you need too? Other teams have requirements as well. Make a hockey trade. Good for both teams.
- honesthockey

Easier said than done though...although obviously having not upgraded the D by the deadline, ShanNonis has to do it over the summer, if they don't I'll say wtf

Nonis got him Raymond. Raymond screams out hardworking, defensive minded and physical.
- Tumbleweed

........nah i dont mind him actually,cheap!

While this mostly is a Burke built team, I blame Nonis for not seeing what everyone else sees and in the very least slowly fixing it. One or two defensmen at the deadline could have made the world of difference.
- honesthockey

Nonis has been here since 2008. To some extent he has been involved with almost every player on this roster being acquired or extended.

Easier said than done though...although obviously having not upgraded the D by the deadline, ShanNonis has to do it over the summer, if they don't I'll say wtf
- Zezel

Agreed. I think it just pissed me off that it comes out we were in on Vanek. Really?? That's what we needed?? Tell us you were trying to get some help on the point too.

Nonis has been here since 2008. To some extent he has been involved with almost every player on this roster being acquired or extended.
- Tumbleweed

Agreed

........nah i dont mind him actually,cheap!
- nbboy

He's the great example in my mind of why the team has no identity (that I can see).

He's cheap, has some skill and available, let's sign him.

I hope this changes under BS. Every player acquired should meet several consistent attributes to create a team identity.

Carlyle is a piece that may have been mismanaged as well.

If he was pointing at Carlyle then he had his answer so it would have been easy to make the change. Why hang on if you have your problem?
- honesthockey

I struggle to believe that anyone could tell Carlyle what to do...

Agreed. I think it just pissed me off that it comes out we were in on Vanek. Really?? That's what we needed?? Tell us you were trying to get some help on the point too.
- honesthockey

Had conversations about Vanek, but I'll make a million dollar bet they discussed all positions with all the teams. It's hard to judge without knowing what exact deals teams were offering. GMs might have been saying TO is desperate for D, let's highball them.

I struggle to believe that anyone could tell Carlyle what to do...
- lumlums

Then why hang onto him? Makes zero sense. If they all feel he did a poor job then let him go. Why wait?

I honestly think Carlyle gave up trying to play his style with a lineup that couldn't play it, so he changed things up to match his lineup after the deadline. Basically a FU Nonis.

Kadri
Reimer
Gardiner

For

Tavares

Had conversations about Vanek, but I'll make a million dollar bet they discussed all positions with all the teams. It's hard to judge without knowing what exact deals teams were offering. GMs might have been saying TO is desperate for D, let's highball them.
- Zezel

Then say that. Tell us you recognize a problem. In on Vanek tells me he doesn't see it. So Carlyle showed him.

I reaaaallllyyy hope that we hire Barry Trotz. Making the playoffs 7 out of 10 years is a pretty damn good record, especially with what he had to work with over the course of his tenure.

Kadri
Reimer
Gardiner

For

Tavares



- ThePresident

There will be know high end help coming. I'm just hoping for a directional change towards what is a proven formula. Players who can play in all areas of the game not just one like the American player model.

http://www.pensionplanpup...erspective-on-nazem-kadri