Honestly, If I get proven wrong, I'll admit it. I have done it in the past and will do it again in the future.

Nobody likes it, but everyone makes mistakes.
- Jsaquella

Absolutely, and that's why I enjoy reading your posts and blogs on THG.

You absolutely mis-use the stats in the post you made, while at the same time proving yourself wrong.


You cherry picked two stats, took them completely out of context and tried to make a point...If it's not part of your argument, why use the stats at all?

You compare MacDonald's 15 game sample, playing against lesser QOC as a Flyer to Byfuglien's 79 game sample playing against the highest QOC on the Jets.

That's why MacDonald's entire year of stats are relevant. His CF and CF REL are better because the Flyers are using him as a third pair guy in terms of quality of competition.
- Jsaquella

Actually, MacDonald's CF% as a Flyer is particularly impressive when you consider the fact that the has a TotTm% QoT of only 26.6%, lowest of any defensemen other than Gus and Gill. QoC is just one part of the equation.

If we are going to judge a defenseman by CF% then we need to acknowledge that most of the Corsi events that happen while they are on the ice come from their four teammates. Mac's three most common forward are Simmonds, Schenn and Lecavalier, all of whom have a CF% under 50. In Vinny's case well under.

Nobody used stats, they mentioned he was a better possession player, which you proved when you posted the stats.

So, thanks for that, always good to have my point made for me.

And again, your opinion is noted, and has been widely disagreed with.
- Jsaquella

Stating that he is a better possession player is using the stats. Unless someone is going to misrepresent and say that they came to that conclusion without using the stats. But we know that to be false.

"Hi, Mr. and Mrs. Schenn? Um, yes.....this is.....awkward....."
- johndewar

Nothing two bathtubs and a pack of Cialis can't handle.

Exactly. I can't stand Byfuglien. I don't like athletes who have weight issues and who's effort gets questioned at times. But I'd still take Buff at 5.3 over Mac at 4.5-5. Of course, once you tell me I have to trade for Buff that goes out the window when I hear what the Jets want (most likely)
- five4fighting10

Exactly. I like Byfuglien, but I sure as poop ain't trading Brayden Schenn for him.

I have been watching a lot of the Bolts over the past month or so.. and let me tell you.. Hedman should be near the top of ever Norris ballet submitted. What a stud.

Actually, MacDonald's CF% as a Flyer is particularly impressive when you consider the fact that the has a TotTm% QoT of only 26.6%, lowest of any defensemen other than Gus. QoC is just one part of the equation.

If we are going to judge a defenseman by CF% then we need to acknowledge that most of the Corsi events that happen while they are on the ice come from their four teammates. Mac's three most common forward are Simmonds, Schenn and Lecavalier, all of whom have a CF% under 50. In Vinny's case well under.
- Feanor

Is it just me or when that line is together does it seem like they end up on the ice at the end of every period and get pinned in our own zone

Actually, MacDonald's CF% as a Flyer is particularly impressive when you consider the fact that the has a TotTm% QoT of only 26.6%, lowest of any defensemen other than Gus. QoC is just one part of the equation.

If we are going to judge a defenseman by CF% then we need to acknowledge that most of the Corsi events that happen while they are on the ice come from their four teammates. Mac's three most common forward are Simmonds, Schenn and Lecavalier, all of whom have a CF% under 50. In Vinny's case well under.
- Feanor

Do you mean that Corsi can't isolate a player from his teammates? Ah context rears it's ugly head. There's those dreaded false positives and negatives.

But desperate teams often make ill-advised trades...like trading Ryan McDonagh and Chris Higgins for Scott Gomez.

If the price is too high, you don't make the trade. Pretty much every single person who advocated for Byfuglien noted that they wouldn't be willing to trade a lot to get him and if he costs more than you're willing to give, you move on to the next option.
- Jsaquella

Exactly

I have been watching a lot of the Bolts over the past month or so.. and let me tell you.. Hedman should be near the top of ever Norris ballet submitted. What a stud.
- jak521

Top notch. He's really come on. And he's going to get better.

Stating that he is a better possession player is using the stats. Unless someone is going to misrepresent and say that they came to that conclusion without using the stats. But we know that to be false.
- MJL

Maybe it's just an opinion, kind of like 99% of of the posts you make and expect people to treat as gospel fact.

You're the one who brought the stats out that proved he was a better possession player. Again, thanks for making my point for me.

But desperate teams often make ill-advised trades...like trading Ryan McDonagh and Chris Higgins for Scott Gomez.

If the price is too high, you don't make the trade. Pretty much every single person who advocated for Byfuglien noted that they wouldn't be willing to trade a lot to get him and if he costs more than you're willing to give, you move on to the next option.
- Jsaquella

Then what is the sense? I wouldn't trade Michael Raffl for him. And it's still about far more then what the cost to acquire him is.

Maybe it's just an opinion, kind of like 99% of of the posts you make and expect people to treat as gospel fact.

You're the one who brought the stats out that proved he was a better possession player. Again, thanks for making my point for me.
- Jsaquella

I didn't bring the stats out. I just was the first one to provide the exact numbers. The stats were being used well before that in the discussion. Like I said, if anyone wants to pretend that Byfuglien being a better possession player is not based on knowing the Corsi stats, then that's fine. But that's an illusion.

Exactly. I like Byfuglien, but I sure as poop ain't trading Brayden Schenn for him.
- Jsaquella

No doubt. If I could get Buff for say, this years 1st straight up or a this years 2nd and a couple lesser prospects like Alt and Cousins, I'd do it. However if the deal needs to include their 2015 1st, B Schenn, Couturier, Read, Morin, Ghost or Hagg, I'll pass.

Actually, MacDonald's CF% as a Flyer is particularly impressive when you consider the fact that the has a TotTm% QoT of only 26.6%, lowest of any defensemen other than Gus and Gill. QoC is just one part of the equation.

If we are going to judge a defenseman by CF% then we need to acknowledge that most of the Corsi events that happen while they are on the ice come from their four teammates. Mac's three most common forward are Simmonds, Schenn and Lecavalier, all of whom have a CF% under 50. In Vinny's case well under.
- Feanor

See.. this is what an informed counter-argument looks like.

Well done sir.

Then what is the sense? I wouldn't trade Michael Raffl for him. And it's still about far more then what the cost to acquire him is.
- MJL

I ask myself this pretty much every time I see you make a post

Actually, MacDonald's CF% as a Flyer is particularly impressive when you consider the fact that the has a TotTm% QoT of only 26.6%, lowest of any defensemen other than Gus and Gill. QoC is just one part of the equation.

If we are going to judge a defenseman by CF% then we need to acknowledge that most of the Corsi events that happen while they are on the ice come from their four teammates. Mac's three most common forward are Simmonds, Schenn and Lecavalier, all of whom have a CF% under 50. In Vinny's case well under.
- Feanor

You just used criticism of Lecavalier to defend MacDonald. Clean that up, and re-submit.

Is it just me or when that line is together does it seem like they end up on the ice at the end of every period and get pinned in our own zone
- five4fighting10

I think that's why they broke them up for the most part.

Actually, MacDonald's CF% as a Flyer is particularly impressive when you consider the fact that the has a TotTm% QoT of only 26.6%, lowest of any defensemen other than Gus and Gill. QoC is just one part of the equation.

If we are going to judge a defenseman by CF% then we need to acknowledge that most of the Corsi events that happen while they are on the ice come from their four teammates. Mac's three most common forward are Simmonds, Schenn and Lecavalier, all of whom have a CF% under 50. In Vinny's case well under.
- Feanor

Exactly, which is why I wasn't using any advanced stats to make my point on MacDonald.

I think he's played well as a Flyer, overall and certainly by the eye test. I use stats to quantify what I see, not to tell me what I was watching. I'm still not willing to pay him $5mm a year for the next 4 years.

EDIT: the lone possession point made was that Byfuglien is a better possession player than MacDoanld.

Wait.. someone honestly said Daddy Mac is better than Big Mac?

Whoa.

Just for the record (statistically)

78 games played
20 goals
36 assists
-20 +-
68 Take Aways (leads NHL)
72 Give Aways
80 blocked shots
256 shots on net


They are statistical numbers. Stats. #theydontlie #ithink

No doubt. If I could get Buff for say, this years 1st straight up or a this years 2nd and a couple lesser prospects like Alt and Cousins, I'd do it. However if the deal needs to include their 2015 1st, B Schenn, Couturier, Read, Morin, Ghost or Hagg, I'll pass.
- BiggE

I'm not even too happy giving up this year's first, TBH. a 2nd and lesser prospects, I'd do in a heartbeat

Absolutely, and that's why I enjoy reading your posts and blogs on THG.
- five4fighting10

Thanks. I appreciate it.

Honestly, If I get proven wrong, I'll admit it. I have done it in the past and will do it again in the future.

Nobody likes it, but everyone makes mistakes.
- Jsaquella

You're wrong. All of this, wrong wrong wrong.

I'm not even too happy giving up this year's first, TBH. a 2nd and lesser prospects, I'd do in a heartbeat
- Jsaquella

Assuming they are picking somewhere between 16-18 I'd give up this years first. I don't think this draft is as impressive as last year or next year.

Wait.. someone honestly said Daddy Mac is better than Big Mac?
- jak521