The Jets aren't the gold standard of the NHL, but I'm concerned by them moving him to wing. If he's such a good defenseman, why would they move him to wing? No team would ever move a top pairing defenseman to wing unless they're complete morons.
- PhillySportsGuy

Trouba, Postma, Redmond, Bogosian... they're stacked on D on that right side. And really thin up front.

(ok maybe stacked isn't the right word.. they have depth.)

So, you can use stats but dismiss them when others do? How hypocritical can one be?

You spent weeks shredding stats and their biases and now use them to make an argument?

Actually, MacDonald's CF% at 5 on 5 for the entire season is at 43.6% and his CF REL for the entire season is -7.9%

That's a much more significant difference. Comparing 15 games vs 79 games is apples and oranges
- Jsaquella

I haven't used a single stat to dismiss anything. I simply pointed out each player's possession numbers since it's being repeatedly brought up. Fact is that I don't need a single advance stat to come to the correct conclusion on Byfuglien and my interest in him for the Flyers. Nor is it part of my argument.

And as far as looking at MacDonald's CF% for the entire Season. I wouldn't expect it to be good with how the Islanders were misusing him. There's that context again, rearing it's ugly head. The Flyers are using him in a role that he is better suited for.

I'm not married to advanced statistics in coming to my conclusions, nor do I misuse them like so many do to come to false conclusions. In my opinion of course.

Trouba, Postma, Redmond, Bogosian... they're stacked on D on that right side. And really thin up front.
- Tomahawk

I would do Schenn for him. Maybe throw in a smaller prospect/pick (Leier or 2nd).

I just don't trust the guy for a variety of reasons. I get the feeling he doesn't care enough about winning. I admit I have no real evidence to back this up other than the limited number of games I've watched. I just have that feeling.

Not an issue. They always find a way to do anything they want.
- Flyersgod

I would do Schenn for him. Maybe throw in a smaller prospect/pick (Leier or 2nd).

I just don't trust the guy for a variety of reasons. I get the feeling he doesn't care enough about winning. I admit I have no real evidence to back this up other than the limited number of games I've watched. I just have that feeling.
- PhillySportsGuy

This. I can't quantify/justify it. Just how I feel.

I would do Schenn for him. Maybe throw in a smaller prospect/pick (Leier or 2nd).
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm not dead set against Buff but even I wouldn't go as far as Schenn.

Unless you meant Luke

I'm not dead set against Buff but even I wouldn't go as far as Schenn.

Unless you meant Luke
- Tomahawk

You just made the case for him being a #1 defenseman and you won't part with B. Schenn for him?!

I haven't used a single stat to dismiss anything. I simply pointed out each player's possession numbers since it's being repeatedly brought up. Fact is that I don't need a single advance stat to come to the correct conclusion on Byfuglien and my interest in him for the Flyers. Nor is it part of my argument.

And as far as looking at MacDonald's CF% for the entire Season. I wouldn't expect it to be good with how the Islanders were misusing him. There's that context again, rearing it's ugly head. The Flyers are using him in a role that he is better suited for.

I'm not married to advanced statistics in coming to my conclusions, nor do I misuse them like so many do to come to false conclusions. In my opinion of course.
- MJL

You absolutely mis-use the stats in the post you made, while at the same time proving yourself wrong.


You cherry picked two stats, took them completely out of context and tried to make a point...If it's not part of your argument, why use the stats at all?

You compare MacDonald's 15 game sample, playing against lesser QOC as a Flyer to Byfuglien's 79 game sample playing against the highest QOC on the Jets.

That's why MacDonald's entire year of stats are relevant. His CF and CF REL are better because the Flyers are using him as a third pair guy in terms of quality of competition.

Even with your complete mis-use of stats, Byfuglien in more games against better competition had better stats than MacDonald. Thanks for proving my point, Socrates

This. I can't quantify/justify it. Just how I feel.
- jmatchett383

There are just too many negative things surrounding him for it to be ENTIRELY unjust.

You just made the case for him being a #1 defenseman and you won't part with B. Schenn for him?!
- PhillySportsGuy

Nope, but that's more me not wanting to live to regret pulling the plug on Brayden.

I'm talking Stajan/Hagman/Aulie kind of thing... if I'm parting w/ Brayden Schenn, I will aim for a more Shea Pronger-esque player.

You just made the case for him being a #1 defenseman and you won't part with B. Schenn for him?!
- PhillySportsGuy

I think he's a number one and I wouldn't trade Schenn for him, either. As I have tried to say, he'd be an improvement, but he definitely has warts.

His age, weight and inconsistent defense make me against trading a 22 year old 20 goal center for him

Thats where he's been banished?
- PhillySportsGuy

He's infringing on my turf over there.

You cherry picked two stats, took them completely out of context and tried to make a point...If it's not part of your argument, why use the stats at all?

You compare MacDonald's 15 game sample, playing against lesser QOC as a Flyer to Byfuglien's 79 game sample playing against the highest QOC on the Jets.

That's why MacDonald's entire year of stats are relevant. His CF and CF REL are better because the Flyers are using him as a third pair guy in terms of quality of competition.

Even with your complete mis-use of stats, Byfuglien in more games against better competition had better stats than MacDonald. Thanks for proving my point, Socrates
- Jsaquella

Do you think Buff is a sound defensive player -- with his stats, quality of competition, points, and +/- -- an offensive dman the Flyers need, or both?

Nope, but that's more me not wanting to live to regret pulling the plug on Brayden.

I'm talking Stajan/Hagman/Aulie kind of thing... if I'm parting w/ Brayden Schenn, I will aim for a more Shea Pronger-esque player.
- Tomahawk

So you're hoping this turns into a Rick Nash scenario where the Jets just need to unload him and everyone knows? That would be great. We know the Flames won't have any interest in him

You cherry picked two stats, took them completely out of context and tried to make a point...If it's not part of your argument, why use the stats at all?

You compare MacDonald's 15 game sample, playing against lesser QOC as a Flyer to Byfuglien's 79 game sample playing against the highest QOC on the Jets.

That's why MacDonald's entire year of stats are relevant. His CF and CF REL are better because the Flyers are using him as a third pair guy in terms of quality of competition.

Even with your complete mis-use of stats, Byfuglien in more games against better competition had better stats than MacDonald. Thanks for proving my point, Socrates
- Jsaquella

His ass has yet to be introduced to his elbow...

His ass has yet to be introduced to his elbow...
- Tomahawk

Be his conclusion is correct, because more than death, he fears being proven wrong.

I think he's a number one and I wouldn't trade Schenn for him, either. As I have tried to say, he'd be an improvement, but he definitely has warts.

His age, weight and inconsistent defense make me against trading a 22 year old 20 goal center for him
- Jsaquella

Well, I don't think its possible without Schenn, Couts, Jake or Simmer going back the other way. Maybe a package like Read, Hagg and pick.

You cherry picked two stats, took them completely out of context and tried to make a point...If it's not part of your argument, why use the stats at all?

You compare MacDonald's 15 game sample, playing against lesser QOC as a Flyer to Byfuglien's 79 game sample playing against the highest QOC on the Jets.

That's why MacDonald's entire year of stats are relevant. His CF and CF REL are better because the Flyers are using him as a third pair guy in terms of quality of competition.

Even with your complete mis-use of stats, Byfuglien in more games against better competition had better stats than MacDonald. Thanks for proving my point, Socrates
- Jsaquella

I didn't cherry pick anything. In fact, I don't think the Corsi stats carry much weight. I made multiple posts on this subject without using a single stat. It's only when the Corsi community started throwing around possession that I supplied the numbers to show that Byfuglien isn't a great possession player. In fact for a player, who is supposed to be an elite puck mover, his possession numbers are rather pedestrian. But really that doesn't matter. Because my entire opinion on both players is based on what I see with my eyes, and not a misuse of any stat.
Quality of Competition stats are so badly flawed that they are pretty much useless. It's all Corsi based. Which is flawed in conception.

If anyone wants to base their argument on stats, they are free to do so. But MacDonald is a better all around defenseman then Byfuglien is. And I'll take MacDinald over Byfuglien any day. No contest.

So you're hoping this turns into a Rick Nash scenario where the Jets just need to unload him and everyone knows? That would be great. We know the Flames won't have any interest in him
- PhillySportsGuy

Exactly. If it's not that kind of situation, I'm not even calling about him. I'm chasing after Bogosian... or the unicorn named Jacob.

He's infringing on my turf over there.
- BulliesPhan87

You need to get over there. I don't want the Pens fans thinking we're all like him.

Exactly. If it's not that kind of situation, I'm not even calling about him. I'm chasing after Bogosian... or the unicorn named Jacob.
- Tomahawk

Not happening.

Not happening.
- PhillySportsGuy

So how many Brayden Schenns is it going to take?

/fires up the clone machine

I've decided that we need more forwards who skate and play a fast and normal hockey style. sounds dumb, but all our forwards are awkward in their own way
1) Hartnell and his clumsy self
2) G always circling back with his stick on the ice and using too much energy
3) Voracek speaks for himself
4) Simmonds
5) Lecavamolier and his arm swinging
6) Couts
7) Hall and his straightback

I'd say Read and Schenn are the most normal skaters.

As I said, it's dumb, but I get annoyed watching them. Just (frank)ing skate and stickhandle like a normal person.

Look at TB: they have a bunch of nobody's, but play fast and straightforward.

So how many Brayden Schenns is it going to take?

/fires up the clone machine
- Tomahawk

Well, Schenn is Richards 2.0, Laughton is Richards 3.0, Horvat is Richards 4.0 and Jared McCann is Richards 5.0.

If Richards = Schenn and we draft McCann, we'll have 3 Schenns. I think thats more than enough.