Ovechkin for Kessel?


Would you do it?
- davecervo

No disrespect to Kessel, but it would take more than that... Even as a Flyers fan, trading G straight-up probably wouldn't even do it.

For fun though...

B. Schenn, L. Schenn, Voracek, Laughton, and 2 1st rounds picks

+/- is not a stupid stat. It is only stupid if it used without base.

Say a player is an even +/- but gets regular defensive zone starts and high QoC. Than +/- says he is a good/great player and gets the job done right.

Say a player is an even +/- and he gets sheltered offensive zone starts against weak QoC. Said player is a liability on the ice, barely produces offense needed to offset defensive lapses.

Now if you are in the first category and have a high +/- (ie. Bergeron) you are an outstanding player.

If you are in the second category and have a low +/- (ie. Ovie) you suck.

+/- is a great stat if used correctly and all info is provided.
- FlyersSteve118

But it never is. If you're on a worse team and are on ice for empty net goals you get a minus. If you are on a pp and let in SHG you get a minus. If you have below average SV% you are going to be more minus.


Example: Nail Yakupov. Everyone laughing it up at his +/-. Parkatti put out a stat that if you remove his empty net goals against and equalize his on ice SV% to league average he would be -3. Not nearly as bad as most would have you believe.

Ovechkin for Kessel?


Would you do it?
- davecervo

Would who do it?
Would Leaf fans or Nonis? Yes.
Would Cap fans or McPhee? No.

But it never is. If you're on a worse team and are on ice for empty net goals you get a minus. If you are on a pp and let in SHG you get a minus. If you have below average SV% you are going to be more minus.


Example: Nail Yakupov. Everyone laughing it up at his +/-. Parkatti put out a stat that if you remove his empty net goals against and equalize his on ice SV% to league average he would be -3. Not nearly as bad as most would have you believe.
- Iggysbff

Same with Edler. If you would remove all the goals he was on the ice for, transform him into Shea Weber and remove all opponents whenever he was on the ice, he would only be -13. Case closed.

Didn't think I'd be saying this but given his massive contract and inability to play defense, the Caps should at least see what's out there. Imagine what he could land you - probably 2 firsts, an elite NHLer, and some blue chip prospects. You could entirely rebuild your franchise with one move. You'd still have elite talent like Backstrom to get your goals.

Didn't think I'd be saying this but given his massive contract and inability to play defense, the Caps should at least see what's out there. Imagine what he could land you - probably 2 firsts, an elite NHLer, and some blue chip prospects. You could entirely rebuild your franchise with one move. You'd still have elite talent like Backstrom to get your goals.
- GoosePuck

lol, see my deal above....

Didn't think I'd be saying this but given his massive contract and inability to play defense, the Caps should at least see what's out there. Imagine what he could land you - probably 2 firsts, an elite NHLer, and some blue chip prospects. You could entirely rebuild your franchise with one move. You'd still have elite talent like Backstrom to get your goals.
- GoosePuck

Ya, backstrom doesn't really score goals...

trade him. use the $ to bring in a few more team/system guys. if you continue to change coaches and get the same results???? there is no questioning his talent but this should have been an olympic medal and stanley cup playoff yr for him.

both the caps and AO should start over....and not as a couple.

Same with Edler. If you would remove all the goals he was on the ice for, transform him into Shea Weber and remove all opponents whenever he was on the ice, he would only be -13. Case closed.
- hankthetank

Once again such a great well thought out post....

And Shea Weber is being talked about for the Norris and is -4 this year....

Once again such a great well thought out post....

And Shea Weber is being talked about for the Norris and is -4 this year....
- Iggysbff

Say what you want about Shea, but he is a legit Norris trophy candidate.

Say what you want about Shea, but he is a legit Norris trophy candidate.
- Flyers_V88

Oh hell ya ,still think its Keith,s to lose but he will get some votes for sure

Oh hell ya ,still think its Keith,s to lose but he will get some votes for sure
- top shelf 15

We'll see what Edler has to say about that.

Oh hell ya ,still think its Keith,s to lose but he will get some votes for sure
- top shelf 15

Yeah, I'd agree as well.

But it never is. If you're on a worse team and are on ice for empty net goals you get a minus. If you are on a pp and let in SHG you get a minus. If you have below average SV% you are going to be more minus.


Example: Nail Yakupov. Everyone laughing it up at his +/-. Parkatti put out a stat that if you remove his empty net goals against and equalize his on ice SV% to league average he would be -3. Not nearly as bad as most would have you believe.
- Iggysbff

It would seem like he is just that bad defensively that he lets up higher quality harder to save scoring chances. How you can you just change the numbers to say its all the goalies fault his numbers suck?

Say what you want about Shea, but he is a legit Norris trophy candidate.
- Flyers_V88

I agree. But naysayers will point to his +/-

We'll see what Edler has to say about that.
- hankthetank

Yeah he did come out of no where..... to get no votes

Say what you want about Shea, but he is a legit Norris trophy candidate.
- Flyers_V88

Deservedly so

I agree. But naysayers will point to his +/-
- Iggysbff

Yeah for sure, it's definitely not a tell-all stat though. There is deception to +/-, and it takes more than just numerical analysis to evaluate a player.

I have been saying this for a long time. Trade the selfish Russian. He is a cancer to the team.

Say what you want about Shea, but he is a legit Norris trophy candidate.
- Flyers_V88

Surprised his back hasn't caved considering how hard he has carried his team
But on a more serious note, no one would put in enough chips for the caps to even think about moving Ovie.

Trades can't happen now. Its a rumor and we will hear more about it come the summer and especially the draft.
- Eklund

False.

The trade deadline only means that any player traded afterward is not eligible to participate in the playoffs.

It would seem like he is just that bad defensively that he lets up higher quality harder to save scoring chances. How you can you just change the numbers to say its all the goalies fault his numbers suck?
- FlyersSteve118

Yet when you look up players on ice SV% you find along with Yakupov there are names such as Datsyuk, ROR etc. Names that are Selke trophy winners. I guess they are just giving up better quality shots as well?

Ovechkin has been on the ice for more than 73 goals.

I get that 74 points minus 36 power play points equals 38, and then you added 38 even strength/shorthanded points to the -35 to get 73 even strength goals allowed. However, you forgot that he could be on the ice for a Caps even strength goal but not get a point. That means he has been on the ice for more than 73 goals, unless he got a goal/assist on every even strength goal when he was on the ice.

Didn't think I'd be saying this but given his massive contract and inability to play defense, the Caps should at least see what's out there. Imagine what he could land you - probably 2 firsts, an elite NHLer, and some blue chip prospects. You could entirely rebuild your franchise with one move. You'd still have elite talent like Backstrom to get your goals.
- GoosePuck

That package is ridiculous, there's no way Washington gets that. That's mortgaging you're entire franchise for Ovi, which has gotten Washington absolutely nowhere.

Yet when you look up players on ice SV% you find along with Yakupov there are names such as Datsyuk, ROR etc. Names that are Selke trophy winners. I guess they are just giving up better quality shots as well?
- Iggysbff

Obviously if the goalie can't stop them as much. They are better quality shots.