Matt Read is an a role where he is playing against top lines every night. Put Matt Read in a situation where he is relieved of that responsibility, and plays on a scoring line, with better offensive players around him. What would happen with read's scoring rate?
- MJL

But aside from a short stint on the top line, Raffl has either been on that same line with Read or playing with the like of Rinaldo and Hall as linemates. I'm sure that his production could also increase if he were played on a scoring line and not counted on for his defensive responsibility.

In that case, Bobby Clarke should be behind bars today. And Eric Lindros and Ron Hextall should be next to him. Because they are 3 of the dirtiest stickmen of all time.
- jmatchett383

They are some of the reasons that hockey had evolved into such a disrespectful sport. Need to take the cry baby attitude or of the game. Nhl needs to start cracking down on all cheap shots taken behind the play. Maybe than grown men can play a hockey game without all the whining and crying they do on the ice.

"You got a scoring chance on my goalie so I'm going to call you names and push you. Wahh. I'm upset."

It's pathetic..

And that player was subsequently suspended for a year. And he went far beyond "players policing themselves" and into "deliberately injure this player severely" territory. Bertuzzi should never have been allowed back into the game.
- jmatchett383

Agreed

And you think that was sustainable production that will be recreated in the present? Do you want to base Claude Giroux's expected production over his first 25 games as well?
- jmatchett383

I think that if Lecavalier is again put in the 2nd line center position he can again, become a productive offensive player that can improve the offensive production of the 2nd line. And I see no reason why he can't score at a 30 goal level.

Matt Read is an a role where he is playing against top lines every night. Put Matt Read in a situation where he is relieved of that responsibility, and plays on a scoring line, with better offensive players around him. What would happen with read's scoring rate?
- MJL

Raffl has played most of his minutes with Rosehill, Rinaldo and Hall. I'm not saying Raffl is some elite offensive talent, but I don't think he's going to slow down the scoring of that line. If anything, he'll help them by spending less time in the defensive zone.

They are some of the reasons that hockey had evolved into such a disrespectful sport. Need to take the cry baby attitude or of the game. Nhl needs to start cracking down on all cheap shots taken behind the play. Maybe than grown men can play a hockey game without all the whining and crying they do on the ice.

"You got a scoring chance on my goalie so I'm going to call you names and push you. Wahh. I'm upset."

It's pathetic..
- FlyersSteve118

Okay, you're losing me...what exactly is it that you want? You want Sean Avery put in jail for a slash, and the "cry baby attitude" out of the game, and cheap shots behind the play to be cracked down on. I'm just not sure exactly what you're getting at, in all honesty.

He was shooting a high percentage. In fact, he's on pace to finish with his highest shooting percentage EVER. There is reason to believe, he's been lucky to even get to 19 goals.

If he were shooting a normal percentage, he'd have 14-16 goals right now.
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree. A proven offensive player in this League like Lecavalier, has been lucky to even get to 19 goals.

Raffl has played most of his minutes with Rosehill, Rinaldo and Hall. I'm not saying Raffl is some elite offensive talent, but I don't think he's going to slow down the scoring of that line. If anything, he'll help them by spending less time in the defensive zone.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think the 2nd line needs to stop thinking they're all Mario Lemieux. They seemed to be playing well when they'd chip the puck in and get in on the forecheck. Now it seems they want to carry it in by themselves.

I agree. A proven offensive player in this League like Lecavalier, has been lucky to even get to 19 goals.
- MJL

Glad we're agreed.

Okay, you're losing me...what exactly is it that you want? You want Sean Avery put in jail for a slash, and the "cry baby attitude" out of the game, and cheap shots behind the play to be cracked down on. I'm just not sure exactly what you're getting at, in all honesty.
- jmatchett383

The nhl has no control over the game. If they did, cheap shots would not happen like they do, and it's all because the sport was enforced by the players at first instead of the league. They have no clue how to do it.

Also it hard for the sport to gain reputation when it seems to be played by a bunch of immature cry babies.

I think the 2nd line needs to stop thinking they're all Mario Lemieux. They seemed to be playing well when they'd chip the puck in and get in on the forecheck. Now it seems they want to carry it in by themselves.
- jmatchett383

If the 2nd line plays well with Raffl, are you just going to assume they'd be that much better with Vinny at center?

As usual you missed the point entirely as you seem to see everything as black or white. Sure cheap shots happen, and they've always happened. My POINT was that in the pre instigator/3rd man era, they happened with much less frequency. You can argue that if you want, but from 74-90 I attended over 500 Flyer games and watched hundreds more on TV so I'm pretty sure that my observations are correct.
- BiggE

I've been to a lot of Flyers games myself, and have been a fan for a long time. All enforcers did is fight other people's battles, and take on the touhg guys of other teams. I'm pretty sure that my observations are correct.

And more importantly, we can argue the role of enforcers to the cows come home, that really has nothing to do with the role of Rosehill on this team. he's on the team for situations like yesterday's game. When the opposition has a player like John Scott, and the Flyers feel that with the situation of Buffalo being out of it. He might decide to compete in another manner. And they don't want a regular more important player then Rosehill, to have to deal with that. Now the reasonable argument against that, is that these situations don't happen very often. Which I don't disagree with.

The nhl has no control over the game. If they did, cheap shots would not happen like they do, and it's all because the sport was enforced by the players at first instead of the league. They have no clue how to do it.

Also it hard for the sport to gain reputation when it seems to be played by a bunch of immature cry babies.
- FlyersSteve118

I think it's more the players having no respect for each other rather than the players no longer enforcing it. All the NHL can do is to create rules to try to protect the players. It's on the players to adhere to those rules and to not want to hurt another player. The NHL can't control that unless the punishments are so severe that players are afraid of making contact because they may accidentally hurt a player and face a 50+ game ban.

I agree. A proven offensive player in this League like Lecavalier, has been lucky to even get to 19 goals.
- MJL

You look at things with such a broad scope.

Perhaps the more telling thing is that the best the Flyers have to ice a fourth line is Rinaldo, Downie, VDV or McGinn who has struggled.

Throw in a center on to that line making 4.5 million/season.

But hey, cap management and Paul Holmgren are non issues.

Which polished turd gets their chance now?

You look at things with such a broad scope.
- PhillySportsGuy

I look at things simply as they are. And my observations are frequently correct.

I think the 2nd line needs to stop thinking they're all Mario Lemieux. They seemed to be playing well when they'd chip the puck in and get in on the forecheck. Now it seems they want to carry it in by themselves.
- jmatchett383

I think Raffl is an awesome fit there because he can carry the puck. Simmonds has never been a great puck-handler, and not sure I believe in bSchenn's ability to continuously do that.

While he may not be the best at converting his chances, Raffl gives that line something it really needs. A guy with decent speed who can carry the puck up the ice.

I look at things simply as they are. And my observations are frequently correct.
- MJL

So Vinny's higher shooting percentage has to do with what? He's more selective?

I think it's more the players having no respect for each other rather than the players no longer enforcing it. All the NHL can do is to create rules to try to protect the players. It's on the players to adhere to those rules and to not want to hurt another player. The NHL can't control that unless the punishments are so severe that players are afraid of making contact because they may accidentally hurt a player and face a 50+ game ban.
- jmatchett383

If a baseball player hit another player with a bat they would never play in the mlb again. You absolutely should get a 50 game ban if you use a heavy wooden stick as a weapon. And that is going easy on a player.

I think Raffl is an awesome fit there because he can carry the puck. Simmonds has never been a great puck-handler, and not sure I believe in bSchenn's ability to continuously do that.

While he may not be the best at converting his chances, Raffl gives that line something it really needs. A guy with decent speed who can carry the puck up the ice.
- flyer_nutter

I like Raffl. I don't think he's necessarily the best fit for a 2nd line center right now.

It seems a month ago we were saying that we had too many centers, and now we're trying to find more of them.

I think Raffl is an awesome fit there because he can carry the puck. Simmonds has never been a great puck-handler, and not sure I believe in bSchenn's ability to continuously do that.

While he may not be the best at converting his chances, Raffl gives that line something it really needs. A guy with decent speed who can carry the puck up the ice.
- flyer_nutter

Exactly. Not to mention his strong defensive play.

Whenever Vinny, Schenn and Simmonds play together, the gaps between defenseman and forwards are huge.

I look at things simply as they are. And my observations are frequently correct.
- MJL

sometimes yes...sometimes not so much.

If a baseball player hit another player with a bat they would never play in the mlb again. You absolutely should get a 50 game ban if you use a heavy wooden stick as a weapon. And that is going easy on a player.
- FlyersSteve118

So then you agree with the Rangers fans that Simmonds should have been suspended for hitting McDonagh late in the game? Because that's exactly what he did.

I like Raffl. I don't think he's necessarily the best fit for a 2nd line center right now.

It seems a month ago we were saying that we had too many centers, and now we're trying to find more of them.
- jmatchett383

I don't really care who plays center. I just don't to see Vinny with Schenn and Simmonds again.

But aside from a short stint on the top line, Raffl has either been on that same line with Read or playing with the like of Rinaldo and Hall as linemates. I'm sure that his production could also increase if he were played on a scoring line and not counted on for his defensive responsibility.
- jmatchett383

It might, but Raffl doesn't have an offensive track record in this League to know that for sure. But Lecavalier certainly does.