got you. sorry to snit.
- wilsonecho91

yeah. I shouldn't have used the word opportunistic. I should have used fortunate.

Their argument is stats based. They say look at Vinny's stats earlier this year. Well, his shooting percentage was 19% earlier this year. Thats unsustainable.

What I'm saying is you can't prorate his numbers and expect him to produce at the same clip. There was going to be a regression to the mean.

They act like he was lighting the world on fire, but he was just shooting a higher percentage. He wasn't generating more chances.
- PhillySportsGuy

As awkward as Lecavalier has played, you do realize that he only trails Baby Schenn by a handful of points in, what, 13 fewer games -- and one more broken back?

Same goes for goalies, too, right?

It's just a lot of little inconsistencies (and some big ones, too) that leave you scratching your head... like who came up with these weird rules and guidelines anyway? Icing allowed on PK, points for losing games, penalties for breaking your own stick, uneven conferences, goals can't be scored off hands but you can bat the puck around at will... Etc.
- Tomahawk

Don't forget how you can't kick a puck in, but it can deflect off of a skate. I really think this rule is just to have "exciting" video reviews.

Why is it with some of you that you demand immediate satisfaction?
- AllInForFlyers

You said it yourself, "Doesn't anybody have any interest in maybe seeing how the guy plays tonight before we make broad statements?"

You said, int hat quote, that how he plays tonight is what he should be judged on.

Not sure when I said he should never be allowed to move up. I said that, if he and Schenn are producing at the same level, I would prefer Schenn stay at his natural position since he's younger and, barring trade, is a bigger piece of the future than Vinny is.

But sure, let's base everything on how Vinny plays tonight, as you suggested.

As awkward as Lecavalier has played, you do realize that he only trails Baby Schenn by a handful of points in, what, 13 fewer games -- and one more broken back?
- AllInForFlyers

Points aren't the only indicator of how well a player is performing. Despite playing quite often together, Vinny is a -16 and Schenn is a +1. Thats pretty telling when you consider how often those two are on the ice together.

Interesting. Does advanced stats give you information on goalies. Would be really interested goalies stats at 5-on-5, on PK, and on odd man rushes, and break-aways/shootouts... So who the best really is.
- SchennBros

Yeah, they break it down by man situation, and score situations, so if you wanted to find put who had the best SV% at ES in tied situations, you could.

PK SV%'s have been determined to be highly variable and unrepeatable.

Yeah, they break it down by man situation, and score situations, so if you wanted to find put who had the best SV% at ES in tied situations, you could.

PK SV%'s have been determined to be highly variable and unrepeatable.
- Tomahawk

Didn't Bryz have a ridiculously low PK save % his last year?

You said it yourself, "Doesn't anybody have any interest in maybe seeing how the guy plays tonight before we make broad statements?"

You said, int hat quote, that how he plays tonight is what he should be judged on.

Not sure when I said he should never be allowed to move up. I said that, if he and Schenn are producing at the same level, I would prefer Schenn stay at his natural position since he's younger and, barring trade, is a bigger piece of the future than Vinny is.

But sure, let's base everything on how Vinny plays tonight, as you suggested.
- jmatchett383

If you don't get that I was saying "let's take a look at the guy and get a feel for how he's playing" instead of saying "oh, let's move him immediately," then how do you reconcile the fact that I'm always the one who says that Mark Streit's play over the whole season has been more than fine? While I was only critical of Nicklas Grossmann's brutal play when it was extended?

Willful ignorance doesn't work when I post frequently enough that how I feel about players and their usage is fairly obvious.

Same goes for goalies, too, right?

It's just a lot of little inconsistencies (and some big ones, too) that leave you scratching your head... like who came up with these weird rules and guidelines anyway? Icing allowed on PK, points for losing games, penalties for breaking your own stick, uneven conferences, goals can't be scored off hands but you can bat the puck around at will... Etc.
- Tomahawk

Well, as someone suggested, most people look at goalie even-strength numbers for comparison.

As for the icing allowed on PK, I touched on it earlier that it probably had to do with the 1950's Canadiens dynasty.

The losing games was invented to decrease ties based on incentive.

Are you saying you're baffled that odd rules exist in a game where grown men strap metal blades to their feet and bat around at a piece of rubber with long asymmetric sticks trying to place the rubber into a net guarded by a man wearing big pillow pads, all done on a slab of ice?

If you don't get that I was saying "let's take a look at the guy and get a feel for how he's playing" instead of saying "oh, let's move him immediately," then how do you reconcile the fact that I'm always the one who says that Mark Streit's play over the whole season has been more than fine? While I was only critical of Nicklas Grossmann's brutal play when it was extended?

Willful ignorance doesn't work when I post frequently enough that how I feel about players and their usage is fairly obvious.
- AllInForFlyers

Again, you said you wanted to see how he plays tonight and then make broad statements. That was your quote. You didn't say tonight and the next few games. You said that we should see "how the guy plays tonight before we make broad statements?" So yes,let's base everything on how he plays tonight, and then make broad assessments on that large sample size.

I, personally, would prefer to base a player's production over a handful of games at best before forming an opinion on him.

Points aren't the only indicator of how well a player is performing. Despite playing quite often together, Vinny is a -16 and Schenn is a +1. Thats pretty telling when you consider how often those two are on the ice together.
- PhillySportsGuy

I guess that means Schenn makes an early line change and leaves Lecavalier out to dry alot, out numbered. BAD SCHENN

Points aren't the only indicator of how well a player is performing. Despite playing quite often together, Vinny is a -16 and Schenn is a +1. Thats pretty telling when you consider how often those two are on the ice together.
- PhillySportsGuy

I know one thing: Plus/minus means just slightly more than absolutely nothing to me.

The last thing I'm going to judge a player on is plus/minus -- hell, if we did that, Nicklas Grossmann should be sitting and Erik Gustafsson should be playing.

I know one thing: Plus/minus means just slightly more than absolutely nothing to me.

The last thing I'm going to judge a player on is plus/minus -- hell, if we did that, Nicklas Grossmann should be sitting and Erik Gustafsson should be playing.
- AllInForFlyers

So +/- means nothing, advanced stats mean nothing, but points mean a whole lot?

Well, as someone suggested, most people look at goalie even-strength numbers for comparison.

As for the icing allowed on PK, I touched on it earlier that it probably had to do with the 1950's Canadiens dynasty.

The losing games was invented to decrease ties based on incentive.

Are you saying you're baffled that odd rules exist in a game where grown men strap metal blades to their feet and bat around at a piece of rubber with long asymmetric sticks trying to place the rubber into a net guarded by a man wearing big pillow pads, all done on a slab of ice?
- jmatchett383

I don't think a strange description of the equipment does anything to explain arbitrary rules. The equipment parts make sense when you think about them, the rules described really don't.

So +/- means nothing, advanced stats mean nothing, but points mean a whole lot?
- PhillySportsGuy

All numerical stats mean something -- again, they're a snapshot in time. Doesn't mean that all stats are equal.

When it comes to Lecavalier, all I'm saying is that the guy, in going down to the fourth line, will play center again. And perhaps he will perform well enough to merit consideration in moving up again -- but he has to play there, first.

He's not been great this season, in some facets. But he has been hurt, and he has been classy in how he's handled it, for the most part.

I'm more willing than most to just see how he plays tonight and take it from there, start assessing the guy at center.

If you don't get that I was saying "let's take a look at the guy and get a feel for how he's playing" instead of saying "oh, let's move him immediately," then how do you reconcile the fact that I'm always the one who says that Mark Streit's play over the whole season has been more than fine? While I was only critical of Nicklas Grossmann's brutal play when it was extended?

Willful ignorance doesn't work when I post frequently enough that how I feel about players and their usage is fairly obvious.
- AllInForFlyers

I dont know you.

I guess that means Schenn makes an early line change and leaves Lecavalier out to dry alot, out numbered. BAD SCHENN
- SchennBros

I guess that means Schenn makes an early line change and leaves Lecavalier out to dry alot, out numbered. BAD SCHENN
- SchennBros

It could also mean that, any time a player on the Flyers has a good scoring chance, Schenn yanks a player off the ice by their jersey and jumps on instead.

I don't think a strange description of the equipment does anything to explain arbitrary rules. The equipment parts make sense when you think about them, the rules described really don't.
- BulliesPhan87

I wish they would just make up their minds... can you touch the puck with your glove, or not. Can you play the puck with your skate, or not. If you literally can't do anything legal with your stick above shoulder level for safety, why not a blanket high sticking call anytime it happens, not just when somebody gets hit in the face? And oh yeah, 4mins for blood, because that's not weird.

All numerical stats mean something -- again, they're a snapshot in time. Doesn't mean that all stats are equal.

When it comes to Lecavalier, all I'm saying is that the guy, in going down to the fourth line, will play center again. And perhaps he will perform well enough to merit consideration in moving up again -- but he has to play there, first.

He's not been great this season, in some facets. But he has been hurt, and he has been classy in how he's handled it, for the most part.

I'm more willing than most to just see how he plays tonight and take it from there, start assessing the guy at center.
- AllInForFlyers

Ultimately, the problem is they don't see him as one of the three best centers and he's incapable of playing wing.

Where else are you going to put him?

It could also mean that, any time a player on the Flyers has a good scoring chance, Schenn yanks a player off the ice by their jersey and jumps on instead.
- jmatchett383

Thats why Bergeron has such a good +/-. Selfish player

The only stat that matters is wins. Everything else is a collection of historical information, not a predictor of future performance.

I wish they would just make up their minds... can you touch the puck with your glove, or not. Can you play the puck with your skate, or not. If you literally can't do anything legal with your stick above shoulder level for safety, why not a blanket high sticking call anytime it happens, not just when somebody gets hit in the face? And oh yeah, 4mins for blood, because that's not weird.
- Tomahawk

Well, then 4 minutes for blood/5 minutes for injury vs. 2 minutes for not, etc. are not official rules (as far as I know), they are judgement calls.

But every sport has them. Take baseball's 3rd strike foul ball rules, for example. A foul ball is a strike, except when it's the 3rd strike, then it doesnlt count, unless it's only a small foul (foul tip), then it does, or if you're bunting, then any foul ball is a strike no matter how many you have.

Basketball's fouls: You can foul a guy and he doesn't shoot, they just stop the game...unless you foul the other team a certain amount of times, then he gets to take uncontested shots.

Football: You can push a receiver in the chest as hard as you want and interfere with him for 5 yards without the ball, but once he goes past 5 yards, laying a finger on him is a 15-yard penalty.

Thats why Bergeron has such a good +/-. Selfish player
- PhillySportsGuy

No, No, No I know what it is... eveyone gets the 40 and 10 confused on the ice. So they always give Schenn the +'s and Vinny always gets the -'s... That explains it...

The only stat that matters is wins. Everything else is a collection of historical information, not a predictor of future performance.
- Flyersgod

And fights won. Very important stat.