This I will agree with. the NCAA is a joke.
- ImThatGuy

Yes. Conferences need to find a way to manage themselves and get rid of the NCAA altogether. At least the conferences distribute the money they make back to the schools that make up the conference.

Again: giving out a scholarship costs a school nothing. And again, this is a dumb argument in general because nobody is asking to be paid. They are asking for workers rights, and that is entirely different. They acknowledge that they are receiving payment in the form of a free education.
- SolidGoldBricks

I think the basic question that has to be answered first is are the college players employees of their colleges.

I argue this with people all the time. They are getting paid in scholarships and the promise of being looked at by the pros. Similar to an internship.

I think the basic question that has to be answered first is are the college players employees of their colleges.
- MunsterMike

Yes. They perform a service that makes the university money and they are compensated with free or reduced tution.

Yes. Conferences need to find a way to manage themselves and get rid of the NCAA altogether. At least the conferences distribute the money they make back to the schools that make up the conference.
- SolidGoldBricks

I thought there was talk of this a few years back that conferences in favor of forming their own governing bodies and moving out of the rule of the NCAA.

Ill have to try to find it.

Hell no...they get everything for free now. If they don't like it don't go. Workout and train on your own, then go get drafted. Cry babies. Sick of this entitlement mentality.
- hellbentformetal

Me too.

I think it's crazy that people think these schools and NCAA think they are entitled to free money on the backs of 18 YO kids.

Are you kidding? To stay at one of those colleges is like 50-80k a year! that's their payment! they get full scholarships! You know what i'd do to have my school paid for because I play a sport? They get paid well enough when they leave after a 3-4 years of free education. They can suck it up.

I argue this with people all the time. They are getting paid in scholarships and the promise of being looked at by the pros. Similar to an internship.
- hockeyhell80

Except, it's really nothing like an internship.

Yes. They perform a service that makes the university money and they are compensated with free or reduced tution.
- hockeyhell80

Employees of a university have far more rights, with respect to earning money, than do so called "student athletes".

They are not. They have made it clear that they are not. I am sure that the idea is to ask for this down the road, but currently payment has nothing to do with it.

The focus is on healthcare and scholarships. Extended healthcare for injuries sustained playing sports for an NCAA institution (I think the focus here is on head injuries that present problems later in life). Scholarships relate to what I described above with the grad school situation, along with further assurances that athletes won't lose their scholarships due to injury and the like.
- SolidGoldBricks

Athletes rarely, if ever, lose scholarship due to injury related to their sport.
And the stipend is the underlying thing here. Healthcare gets the door opened for what they really want.

Me too.

I think it's crazy that people think these schools and NCAA think they are entitled to free money on the backs of 18 YO kids.
- johndewar

Its an endless debate where both sides make very good points and have good cases. That is why I think this is going to be one of those stalemate topics that never will change.

Being a popular jock celebrity on a campus full of hot girls. Sure, lets pay them too.

Yes. They perform a service that makes the university money and they are compensated with free or reduced tution.
- hockeyhell80

Are non scholarship student athletes paid?

I thought there was talk of this a few years back that conferences in favor of forming their own governing bodies and moving out of the rule of the NCAA.

Ill have to try to find it.
- ImThatGuy

there was and still is consideration of this.
there are some questions about marketing and the cost of running all of these things has given the big conferences pause about splintering.
ultimately, we are going to end up with a new NCAA division or a new governing body.

Are non scholarship student athletes paid?
- MunsterMike

no students athletes are currently "paid"

Need to address this notion that athletic scholarships are "free" money and that the universities and athletic departments shouldn't count them against their bottom line.

Athletic scholarships are costs above and beyond what a non student athlete gets. If the admissions department were to fill those beds with regular students, their profit margins would increase by that athletic scholarship.
If you want to say that academic scholarships (the discount that every student gets) that is fine, because almost every student gets those

no students athletes are currently "paid"
- nails

Paid was a bad choice of words. Compensated, then.

Paid was a bad choice of words. Compensated, then.
- MunsterMike

same thing. no student athletes are compensated for their athletic ability or participation on the team, regardless of scholarship or walk on athlete.

Athletes rarely, if ever, lose scholarship due to injury related to their sport.
And the stipend is the underlying thing here. Healthcare gets the door opened for what they really want.
- nails

Technically it's against the rules to take a scholarship for injury.

It's the long term healthcare that's in question. You'll find that the NFL players union is fighting the same battle now that concussions are causing such a problem in later life.

same thing. no student athletes are compensated for their athletic ability or participation on the team, regardless of scholarship or walk on athlete.
- nails

Yes. They perform a service that makes the university money and they are compensated with free or reduced tution.
- hockeyhell80

Which is it?

Technically it's against the rules to take a scholarship for injury.

It's the long term healthcare that's in question. You'll find that the NFL players union is fighting the same battle now that concussions are causing such a problem in later life.
- SolidGoldBricks

BUT DURRRRR THEY GET A SKOLARSHIP!111!!

same thing. no student athletes are compensated for their athletic ability or participation on the team, regardless of scholarship or walk on athlete.
- nails

Correct. The scholarship has nothing to do with it. Remaining an amateur is what it's all about.

Guys, it's really quite simple to understand at this point. The talk of a union is so far based around WORKERS RIGHTS not payment. They are trying to say that they work for universities (and the NCAA), and ARE compensated by scholarships, which makes them workers. Therefore they deserve the rights of workers.

I agree this will definitely spiral into student-athletes requesting to be paid, and I do not think they deserve to be. But as of right now, they are simply fighting for workers rights.

Guys, it's really quite simple to understand at this point. The talk of a union is so far based around WORKERS RIGHTS not payment. They are trying to say that they work for universities (and the NCAA), and ARE compensated by scholarships, which makes them workers. Therefore they deserve the rights of workers.

I agree this will definitely spiral into student-athletes requesting to be paid, and I do not think they deserve to be. But as of right now, they are simply fighting for workers rights.
- SolidGoldBricks

The real flaw with all of this is that if they start to be considered workers, then their "income" (scholarships) can become taxable by the federal government. Therefore they end up paying to go to school where they didn't have to originally.

It's very interesting stuff.

Which is it?
- MunsterMike

This is where some of the argument is.

the union wants to argue that they are compensated in the for of athletic scholarship and they receive this scholarship because they make money for the university by playing the sport. Hence, they are employees and should be able to negotiate better "pay".

If this is the case, then their scholarship, and the subsequent stipends they will also argue for and win, should become taxable income. just like the foreign athletes already have to do.
lets see how they like that.

Also, once that happens, how about the kid who gets an extra science scholarship and performs lab work for a professor that publishes/patents something based off of the work done by students.
Should the academic scholarship become taxable income since that kid helped earn the university money?