The average US school ( that means most of them) Lose $3m annually on football. The select few actually make money, a lot of it.
- fvineze

I'd love to see your source on that one.

NCAA football brings in more money annually than any professional league in north america outside of football. I'd surprise me greatly if it was only made by a dozen teams.

In the OHL, for every year a player plays, he receives a year of tuition, books, fees,etc. to continue his education when his playing days in the league are done.

The average US school ( that means most of them) Lose $3m annually on football. The select few actually make money, a lot of it.
- fvineze

Source please... because I'm pretty sure this is absolutely false. In fact the billions of dollars being made by the NCAA and it's schools is the primary reason for all this hubbub. Making money hand over fist on the student athletes and their likeness. And football and basketball are the top dogs.

Source please... because I'm pretty sure this is absolutely false. In fact the billions of dollars being made by the NCAA and it's schools is the primary reason for all this hubbub. Making money hand over fist on the student athletes and their likeness. And football and basket ball are the top dogs.
- MnGump

this is what i could find
http://www.forbes.com/sit...ms-revenues-and-expenses/

this is what i could find
http://www.forbes.com/sit...ms-revenues-and-expenses/
- Flyfreaky

We'll the top 25 look like they're all raking it in. I guess I was also assuming we were referring to division A teams/schools.

We'll the top 25 look like they're all raking it in. I guess I was also assuming we were referring to division A teams/schools.
- MnGump

i have a hard time believing that most football programs aren't making some cash

i have a hard time believing that most football programs aren't making some cash
- Flyfreaky

I'm sure they are excellent at playing with numbers.. Scholarships cost the school nothing since the student wouldn't go there without them so they shoudln't count as an expense but surely do.

I also assumed we were talking about real D1 football. I doubt the d5 teams have more than rec league players or coaches.

i have a hard time believing that most football programs aren't making some cash
- Flyfreaky

How many hockey programs are though? Northwestern already threatened to shut down their football program after their players filed to unionise. Basically i the players win and end up getting paid, all the small schools could shut down all programs and big schools could close down the sports that don't make a whole lot of money anyways like hockey, baseball, whatever, etc which will be no-brainers for some schools to shut down since they weren't big revenue generators anyways.

i have a hard time believing that most football programs aren't making some cash
- Flyfreaky

We'll I don't have any raw data, but Minnesota gopher football program has sucked for years and they just got a brand new $400 million stadium a few years ago.

How many hockey programs are though? Northwestern already threatened to shut down their football program after their players filed to unionise. Basically i the players win and end up getting paid, all the small schools could shut down all programs and big schools could close down the sports that don't make a whole lot of money anyways like hockey, baseball, whatever, etc which will be no-brainers for some schools to shut down since they weren't big revenue generators anyways.
- Nucker101

it's gonna be a slippery slope

it's gonna be a slippery slope
- Flyfreaky

Gonna need a Football/Basketball version of the CHL. Calling it now.

Gonna need a Football/Basketball version of the CHL. Calling it now.
- Nucker101

What about this kids who suffer brutal life changing injuries and then get their scholarship and essentially their life taken away? Happens in every sports across the country every year. Many of them actually receive a bill in the mail.
- Buffalo-Sabres

There needs to be some kind of back up for medical by the team but these players go to these schools looking for exposure/scholarships/education by there choice. They are all welcome to go to some other league where they can make money but they make a choice to go to this college for what it provides. No further compensation required.

There needs to be some kind of back up for medical by the team but these players go to these schools looking for exposure/scholarships/education by there choice. They are all welcome to go to some other league where they can make money but they make a choice to go to this college for what it provides. No further compensation required.
- SabresFaninIndiana

i disagree, i don't know what the answer is, but i still disagree

come on habs...

At this point, NCAA Division 1 athletics should disappear. College Athletics should be run just like NCAA D3, scholarships based on need only, with limited numbers available for all sports. Sports in college need to be deemphasized, so schools become places of higher learning, not athlete factories.

If it happened the large D1 schools would lose the revenue for their bloated FB and BK programs, and each sport would have to survive on its own resources. Then you wouldn't be paying millions of dollars to coaches, spending massive amounts of money on practice facilities, have multi-million dollar recruiting programs, off season sports camps for High School players, bring in marginal or not ready for college students who need massive amounts of tutoring to pass anything in joke majors, and massive Athletic department bureaucracies with dozens of compliance officers.

That of course would cut Title IX teams off at the knees, and you wouldn't see NCAA women's D1 Basketball tournament games with 2,000 people in the stands. Too bad for them.

It would also make college athletics what it used to be for athletes, an extra curricular activity for students instead of a four year tryout for the professional ranks or national teams for Olympic sports. College students would be students first, athletes second, or third.

For those who don't want a real college education, let other professional sports do what Major League Baseball and to a lesser extent Junior hockey programs do, expand the minor leagues to FB, BK and other sports, treat them like professional athletes and pay them like professional athletes.

Big-time college sports became too big when ESPN and ABC poured money into colleges to fill their networks with events, and then colleges and universities prostituted themselves to get the big bucks. When that happened it changed many things about athletics at levels below college age. Unlike so many other sports, hockey does it right. The system of Junior leagues in Canada is much better than AAU basketball, travel baseball, the 7 on 7 camp circuit in American FB, and club team soccer in the US.

The Northwestern D1 FB players are selfish beyond belief, they want to be paid like professionals, but are not willing to work like professionals. What they want to do is get paid and leave the nationally ranked girls field hockey and lacrosse teams who work as hard as they do out in the cold. They want to make sure the wrestlers at that school who make All-American have no opportunity to work their butt off in the room for the chance to win a national title. It ought to be the other way around.

i disagree, i don't know what the answer is, but i still disagree
- Flyfreaky

I don't think money is the answer. It never is. College is supposed to be about education. I will give them the health needs to be addressed but I just don't known beyond that. They are getting the education (which is supposed to be the main reason for them going there).

I don't think money is the answer. It never is. College is supposed to be about education. I will give them the health needs to be addressed but I just don't known beyond that. They are getting the education (which is supposed to be the main reason for them going there).
- SabresFaninIndiana

i hear what you're saying, but looking at the football programs and the revenue raised for some of those schools, damn, those kids should be getting some of the pie

At this point, NCAA Division 1 athletics should disappear. College Athletics should be run just like NCAA D3, scholarships based on need only, with limited numbers available for all sports. Sports in college need to be deemphasized, so schools become places of higher learning, not athlete factories.

If it happened the large D1 schools would lose the revenue for their bloated FB and BK programs, and each sport would have to survive on its own resources. Then you wouldn't be paying millions of dollars to coaches, spending massive amounts of money on practice facilities, have multi-million dollar recruiting programs, off season sports camps for High School players, bring in marginal or not ready for college students who need massive amounts of tutoring to pass anything in joke majors, and massive Athletic department bureaucracies with dozens of compliance officers.

That of course would cut Title IX teams off at the knees, and you wouldn't see NCAA women's D1 Basketball tournament games with 2,000 people in the stands. Too bad for them.

It would also make college athletics what it used to be for athletes, an extra curricular activity for students instead of a four year tryout for the professional ranks or national teams for Olympic sports. College students would be students first, athletes second, or third.

For those who don't want a real college education, let other professional sports do what Major League Baseball and to a lesser extent Junior hockey programs do, expand the minor leagues to FB, BK and other sports, treat them like professional athletes and pay them like professional athletes.

Big-time college sports became too big when ESPN and ABC poured money into colleges to fill their networks with events, and then colleges and universities prostituted themselves to get the big bucks. When that happened it changed many things about athletics at levels below college age. Unlike so many other sports, hockey does it right. The system of Junior leagues in Canada is much better than AAU basketball, travel baseball, the 7 on 7 camp circuit in American FB, and club team soccer in the US.

The Northwestern D1 FB players are selfish beyond belief, they want to be paid like professionals, but are not willing to work like professionals. What they want to do is get paid and leave the nationally ranked girls field hockey and lacrosse teams who work as hard as they do out in the cold. They want to make sure the wrestlers at that school who make All-American have no opportunity to work their butt off in the room for the chance to win a national title. It ought to be the other way around.
- jkumpire

Pipe dream. Money always wins. No institution would give that money away in the interest of going back to the old days.

Also, your characterization of the Northwestern players is categorically false, as the players who filed to organize will never see the fruits of their labor and are all very solid students at a very good school. They also spend 50+ hours per week on football. How many hours of workouts and classroom time do they have to put in for you to consider them working "like professionals"?

If you're going to pay basketball and football players, I would think you have to pay all athletes. Obviously, not as much, but the court cases would be almost endless if you didn't.

If you're going to pay basketball and football players, I would think you have to pay all athletes. Obviously, not as much, but the court cases would be almost endless if you didn't.
- buffalofan19

Yup, and those other programs don't generate enough money to pay them as much as basketball/football players, unless they workout an agreement to pay them based on revenue earned by each specific program(I'm not a legal expert so I don't even know if that's realistic).

This sounds like Marxism.
- flamminghead

Getting a chunk of the money you earn is definitely Marxism.

If you're going to pay basketball and football players, I would think you have to pay all athletes. Obviously, not as much, but the court cases would be almost endless if you didn't.
- buffalofan19

Nope. Not yet anyway. And obviously the easy argument is if your sport doesn't result in profits for the school, you can't be paid. Of course I'm not sure that takes into account the subsidies schools receive while also raping the average student for tuition.

It's all pretty screwed up. But there is no doubt college sports are big money, at least some of them, and this idea that the players shouldn't share in that money is complete and utter bullpoop.

The newly formed College Athletes Players Association is focusing its efforts on Division I football and basketball players, and it is unclear if scholarship athletes in nonrevenue sports will benefit from the ruling.

http://www.nytimes.com/20...ze.html?hpw&rref=business

If you're going to pay basketball and football players, I would think you have to pay all athletes. Obviously, not as much, but the court cases would be almost endless if you didn't.
- buffalofan19

This

To end this discussion all you need to do is start a major junior football league. Start recruiting guys out of high school and offer them a couple of thousand a year plus meal, room and whatever else there is. If the NCAA lost football they wouldn't be around for much longer or if any of you guys are lawyers start up a new NCAA. I think (but I could be wrong) most of the schools are only in the NCAA because they hold the rights to the "National Champion" title. There's nothing that says the NCAA is the only one of their kind. Get in with the private schools that have $50,000 a year tuition and work from there. Simple.