Holmgren has some culpability, but that's forgetting he took over a horrible team and had it in the SCF in 3 years, largely through his own dealings.

Shero took over a bad team, but one that had Crosby, Malkin and Fleury in the pipeline
- Jsaquella

To me one of Shero's biggest gaffes is not getting the right return for Staal.

Looks like we're getting a 2nd for Mez. I think holmer should get credit for his deadline. Basically a 3rd and Mez for macdonald
- Just5

Why are we assuming this, suddenly?

i dont think holmgren is an awful GM. i just think he is prone to overreach and make some moves for the immediate gratification that actually are bad decisions for the organization. but like i said, i dont know how much pressure he was under or the choice he had to make those decisions.

the carter/richards deals were pure gold. i still wonder how someone can argue otherwise.
- stayinthefnnet

Yeah, I'm not placing Homer on the mountain with Holland or Lombardi or Chiarelli, but I do feel he's maligned unfairly by some. Sure he's made some head scratchers, but you do wonder how much pressure is coming from the Crypt Keeper.

To me one of Shero's biggest gaffes is not getting the right return for Staal.
- Pixote Andolini

Not always easy to get the right return when Staal held the cards with being a UFA.

Yeah, I'm not placing Homer on the mountain with Holland or Lombardi or Chiarelli, but I do feel he's maligned unfairly by some. Sure he's made some head scratchers, but you do wonder how much pressure is coming from the Crypt Keeper.
- Jsaquella

To me one of Shero's biggest gaffes is not getting the right return for Staal.
- Pixote Andolini

His drafting track record for forwards is almost as bad as the Flyers for drafting defensemen.

I also hated both of his deadline deals last season. Vastly overpaid for Murray & Iggy didn't do much.

Yeah, I'm not placing Homer on the mountain with Holland or Lombardi or Chiarelli, but I do feel he's maligned unfairly by some. Sure he's made some head scratchers, but you do wonder how much pressure is coming from the Crypt Keeper.
- Jsaquella

yeah, exactly. i feel its hard to properly evaluate him. and HA! crypt keeper.

To me one of Shero's biggest gaffes is not getting the right return for Staal.
- Pixote Andolini

really? you think? i wouldnt say it was a brinks robbery. but given the circumstances its not something i look at in a negative light.

His drafting track record for forwards is almost as bad as the Flyers for drafting defensemen.

I also hated both of his deadline deals last season. Vastly overpaid for Murray & Iggy didn't do much.
- Jsaquella

now these i will buy. he struggles drafting forwards. granted, a lot of high picks havent really been used on them, but it would be nice if they had at least a few decent guys that could fill a bottom 6 role.

and the murray deal was garbage. i can understand the thought process behind acquiring him. but a pair of seconds. jesus christ.

now these i will buy. he struggles drafting forwards. granted, a lot of high picks havent really been used on them, but it would be nice if they had at least a few decent guys that could fill a bottom 6 role.

and the murray deal was garbage. i can understand the thought process behind acquiring him. but a pair of seconds. jesus christ.
- stayinthefnnet

I didn;t understand it at all, then I saw the cost. Oi vey!

To me one of Shero's biggest gaffes is not getting the right return for Staal.
- Pixote Andolini

I think selling low on Goligoski was his biggest gaffe.

I didn;t understand it at all, then I saw the cost. Oi vey!
- Jsaquella

basically the need to try to have that role that gill fulfilled last time. able to block shots, clear out the front of the net. i get it if you want to try to bring that element in. but that price is egregious for someone projecting to be a bottom pairing specialist in that role.

really? you think? i wouldnt say it was a brinks robbery. but given the circumstances its not something i look at in a negative light.
- stayinthefnnet

The Goligoski deal is his brinks truck

The Goligoski deal is his brinks truck
- Jsaquella

definitely. and honestly, the kunitz/tangradi deal for whitney is a nice one as well. but the staal one? it wasnt comparable to the goligoski deal but the situation was pretty unfavorable, and it at least yielded some pieces.

basically the need to try to have that role that gill fulfilled last time. able to block shots, clear out the front of the net. i get it if you want to try to bring that element in. but that price is egregious for someone projecting to be a bottom pairing specialist in that role.
- stayinthefnnet

The trouble is, Murray was awful in San Jose. They replaced him with Scott Hannan, who was adequate and cost them a 7th rounder.

I'm not against a guy like Grossmann or Hannan or Murray, but you can't pay a premium for them anymore.

definitely. and honestly, the kunitz/tangradi deal for whitney is a nice one as well. but the staal one? it wasnt comparable to the goligoski deal but the situation was pretty unfavorable, and it at least yielded some pieces.
- stayinthefnnet

The Staal deal was one where his hands were kind of tied. If Pouliot becomes the guy they seem to think he can be, it's a good return.

You may have met her before
- PhillySportsGuy

If she grew up in Lower Moreland, I might have gone to school with her.

Few things I learned this weekend:
1. If you were building a cup contending team and you had first pick, would you take Crosby? The answer to that question is absolutely not. That being said, you can't say Crosby is the the best player in the NHL. I'd take Giroux over Crosby any day. He does so much more than Crosby. He dominates on faceoffs. He dominates on the PP. He dominates on the PK. He dominates in all three zones. He is the hardest working player in the NHL. He's been the leading scorer in the NHL since December 11. You can make a case for about five guys when it comes to who's the best in the NHL. Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin and Giroux. To me, I'm taking Giroux all day. I think he's the best player in the NHL.
2. Pittsburgh won't win another cup with Crosby and Malkin. You can't have two 9 million dollar centers and no depth on the wings. The Penguins are built to win in the regular season; not the playoffs. If Pittsburgh has another early exit, they should fire Byslma and trade Malkin. Other than Kunitz and the often injured James Neal, who are their wings? Jokinen, Dupuis, Bennett, Glass, and some other scrubs? Now look at the Flyers ridiculously deep wingers. Voracek, Hartnell, Lecavalier, Simmonds, Read, Downie etc. The Flyers are built like a playoff team, which is why they're doing so well right now. All these games at the moment are playoff type games. The Penguins might win a round and beat up on Montreal, but when they meet a gritty team, they'll get plowed like last year when Boston swept them.
3. The East is wide open. I think the Flyers match up well against any team in the East besides Boston. If they can avoid Boston somehow, the Flyers will have a deep playoff run.

The trouble is, Murray was awful in San Jose. They replaced him with Scott Hannan, who was adequate and cost them a 7th rounder.

I'm not against a guy like Grossmann or Hannan or Murray, but you can't pay a premium for them anymore.
- Jsaquella

im with you man. there is no way to spin the value being anything but a massive overpayment.

Few things I learned this weekend:
1. If you were building a cup contending team and you had first pick, would you take Crosby? The answer to that question is absolutely not. That being said, you can't say Crosby is the the best player in the NHL. I'd take Giroux over Crosby any day. He does so much more than Crosby. He dominates on faceoffs. He dominates on the PP. He dominates on the PK. He dominates in all three zones. He is the hardest working player in the NHL. He's been the leading scorer in the NHL since December 11. You can make a case for about five guys when it comes to who's the best in the NHL. Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin and Giroux. To me, I'm taking Giroux all day. I think he's the best player in the NHL.
2. Pittsburgh won't win another cup with Crosby and Malkin. You can't have two 9 million dollar centers and no depth on the wings. The Penguins are built to win in the regular season; not the playoffs. If Pittsburgh has another early exit, they should fire Byslma and trade Malkin. Other than Kunitz and the often injured James Neal, who are their wings? Jokinen, Dupuis, Bennett, Glass, and some other scrubs? Now look at the Flyers ridiculously deep wingers. Voracek, Hartnell, Lecavalier, Simmonds, Read, Downie etc. The Flyers are built like a playoff team, which is why they're doing so well right now. All these games at the moment are playoff type games. The Penguins might win a round and beat up on Montreal, but when they meet a gritty team, they'll get plowed like last year when Boston swept them.
3. The East is wide open. I think the Flyers match up well against any team in the East besides Boston. If they can avoid Boston somehow, the Flyers will have a deep playoff run.
- TonyBazz

hmm...

Few things I learned this weekend:
1. If you were building a cup contending team and you had first pick, would you take Crosby? The answer to that question is absolutely not. That being said, you can't say Crosby is the the best player in the NHL. I'd take Giroux over Crosby any day. He does so much more than Crosby. He dominates on faceoffs. He dominates on the PP. He dominates on the PK. He dominates in all three zones. He is the hardest working player in the NHL. He's been the leading scorer in the NHL since December 11. You can make a case for about five guys when it comes to who's the best in the NHL. Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin and Giroux. To me, I'm taking Giroux all day. I think he's the best player in the NHL.
2. Pittsburgh won't win another cup with Crosby and Malkin. You can't have two 9 million dollar centers and no depth on the wings. The Penguins are built to win in the regular season; not the playoffs. If Pittsburgh has another early exit, they should fire Byslma and trade Malkin. Other than Kunitz and the often injured James Neal, who are their wings? Jokinen, Dupuis, Bennett, Glass, and some other scrubs? Now look at the Flyers ridiculously deep wingers. Voracek, Hartnell, Lecavalier, Simmonds, Read, Downie etc. The Flyers are built like a playoff team, which is why they're doing so well right now. All these games at the moment are playoff type games. The Penguins might win a round and beat up on Montreal, but when they meet a gritty team, they'll get plowed like last year when Boston swept them.
3. The East is wide open. I think the Flyers match up well against any team in the East besides Boston. If they can avoid Boston somehow, the Flyers will have a deep playoff run.
- TonyBazz

I agree with some of this. But not all of it.

Crosby faceoff % is .526, Giroux .525 Crosby is leading the NHL in scoring by 15 points. That's a significant margin. Also think it's premature to say the Penguins won't win again with Crosby and Malkin.

I agree that the Flyers don't match up well at all with Boston.

definitely. and honestly, the kunitz/tangradi deal for whitney is a nice one as well. but the staal one? it wasnt comparable to the goligoski deal but the situation was pretty unfavorable, and it at least yielded some pieces.
- stayinthefnnet

Staal had all the leverage in that deal, so it wasn't too bad. Overall, Shero and Holmgren have both taken some huge swings and come up short. The biggest move for the Pens was the acquisition of Dupuis, who was basically a throw-in in the Hossa deal. Shero was dealt a better hand to start with, and I'd put the two of them in the same class, maybe Shero slightly ahead for the deals that brought in Neal and Kunitz.

Few things I learned this weekend:
1. If you were building a cup contending team and you had first pick, would you take Crosby? The answer to that question is absolutely not. That being said, you can't say Crosby is the the best player in the NHL. I'd take Giroux over Crosby any day. He does so much more than Crosby. He dominates on faceoffs. He dominates on the PP. He dominates on the PK. He dominates in all three zones. He is the hardest working player in the NHL. He's been the leading scorer in the NHL since December 11. You can make a case for about five guys when it comes to who's the best in the NHL. Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin and Giroux. To me, I'm taking Giroux all day. I think he's the best player in the NHL.
- TonyBazz

I'll take Crosby, and it's not even close.

2. Pittsburgh won't win another cup with Crosby and Malkin. You can't have two 9 million dollar centers and no depth on the wings. The Penguins are built to win in the regular season; not the playoffs. If Pittsburgh has another early exit, they should fire Byslma and trade Malkin. Other than Kunitz and the often injured James Neal, who are their wings? Jokinen, Dupuis, Bennett, Glass, and some other scrubs? Now look at the Flyers ridiculously deep wingers. Voracek, Hartnell, Lecavalier, Simmonds, Read, Downie etc. The Flyers are built like a playoff team, which is why they're doing so well right now. All these games at the moment are playoff type games. The Penguins might win a round and beat up on Montreal, but when they meet a gritty team, they'll get plowed like last year when Boston swept them.
- TonyBazz

Generally, the teams with the best systems win in the playoffs, and strength on the blue line helps. If anything, the strength of a team like Boston or St. Louis will beat them due to defense, not because they have two highly paid ultra-stars.

3. The East is wide open. I think the Flyers match up well against any team in the East besides Boston. If they can avoid Boston somehow, the Flyers will have a deep playoff run.
- TonyBazz

Agreed. They can't handle Boston, but if they make the dance, and someone takes out Boston, they could make a run to the SCF.

I'll take Crosby, and it's not even close.



Generally, the teams with the best systems win in the playoffs, and strength on the blue line helps. If anything, the strength of a team like Boston or St. Louis will beat them due to defense, not because they have two highly paid ultra-stars.



Agreed. They can't handle Boston, but if they make the dance, and someone takes out Boston, they could make a run to the SCF.
- jmatchett383

yeah...

Few things I learned this weekend:
1. If you were building a cup contending team and you had first pick, would you take Crosby? The answer to that question is absolutely not. That being said, you can't say Crosby is the the best player in the NHL. I'd take Giroux over Crosby any day. He does so much more than Crosby. He dominates on faceoffs. He dominates on the PP. He dominates on the PK. He dominates in all three zones. He is the hardest working player in the NHL. He's been the leading scorer in the NHL since December 11. You can make a case for about five guys when it comes to who's the best in the NHL. Tavares, Stamkos, Crosby, Ovechkin and Giroux. To me, I'm taking Giroux all day. I think he's the best player in the NHL.
2. Pittsburgh won't win another cup with Crosby and Malkin. You can't have two 9 million dollar centers and no depth on the wings. The Penguins are built to win in the regular season; not the playoffs. If Pittsburgh has another early exit, they should fire Byslma and trade Malkin. Other than Kunitz and the often injured James Neal, who are their wings? Jokinen, Dupuis, Bennett, Glass, and some other scrubs? Now look at the Flyers ridiculously deep wingers. Voracek, Hartnell, Lecavalier, Simmonds, Read, Downie etc. The Flyers are built like a playoff team, which is why they're doing so well right now. All these games at the moment are playoff type games. The Penguins might win a round and beat up on Montreal, but when they meet a gritty team, they'll get plowed like last year when Boston swept them.
3. The East is wide open. I think the Flyers match up well against any team in the East besides Boston. If they can avoid Boston somehow, the Flyers will have a deep playoff run.
- TonyBazz

no

Also, with your little "best player" pool there.....well- there's this guy....his name is Jonathan Toews...