to be fair, we're chucking poop at prock and his stupidity, much more than at the leafs
- sensarmy_11

i know, that's why i said 'everyone'....it just seemed more fun when we were all making fun of vancouver. Is that getting old already???

Phaneuf has had a terrific year. Statistically he is a top 5 D man this season.
Look at his pint totals, hit blocks, shots, +/-, he is basically on par with Shea Weber but he is +22 to Webers -13.

I am not a lover of the guy but he done a good job this year.

ta da ..... Prock, been missing you buddy ... what with Ottawa losing and TO winning ..... nice to have you back
- GadesnSens

Its' funny, some fools have made this comment before, and I've replied, I don't care if you win a game, here or there, I have no problems commenting, because you're a non-playoff team, and the Leafs are one. Why would one win here and there stop me from commenting?

And then you guys get mad at that. Tell you what, every time you win a game, I'll be sure to say hi, and point out that I'm doing so, and that you still suck. But when I do, I'm going to point out this post, because you can't beeatch when I do. Also, keep in mind this is an Eklund thread, not a Sens thread.

Granted, that still doesn't mean you'd see much of me from now till the end of the year. Because the Sens won't win more than a handful of games.

i know, that's why i said 'everyone'....it just seemed more fun when we were all making fun of vancouver. Is that getting old already???
- clark_griswold

There is plenty of time to make fun of both the Sens and the Nucks.

Its' funny, some fools have made this comment before, and I've replied, I don't care if you win a game, here or there, I have no problems commenting, because you're a non-playoff team, and the Leafs are one. Why would one win here and there stop me from commenting?

And then you guys get mad at that. Tell you what, every time you win a game, I'll be sure to say hi, and point out that I'm doing so, and that you still suck. But when I do, I'm going to point out this post, because you can't beeatch when I do. Also, keep in mind this is an Eklund thread, not a Sens thread.

Granted, that still doesn't mean you'd see much of me from now till the end of the year. Because the Sens won't win more than a handful of games.
- prock

Sh*t just got real!

Phaneuf has had a terrific year. Statistically he is a top 5 D man this season.
Look at his pint totals, hit blocks, shots, +/-, he is basically on par with Shea Weber but he is +22 to Webers -13.

I am not a lover of the guy but he done a good job this year.
- gzatron

hey look prock, you have a twin

point totals - 44th among dmen

+/- is actually 15 not 22, and is a completely meaningless stat.......its the same as saying he's been on the ice for more goals then all but 12 dmen in the entire league.

hits and blocks - who cares. his numbers are the same as allstars like gudas, cowen, schenn, stuart, lovejoy, etc.

phaneuf as a top 5 is laughable

chara, keith, suter, subban, seabrook, karlsson, pietrangelo, bouwmeester, doughty, mcdonough, weber, vlasic, edler, letang, hedman, etc, etc, etc

phaneuf is maybe top 20-30, but top 5 is laughable

This thread reminds me of elementary School.

It's possible that Spezza gets traded at the deadline, but that will largely depend on two things: (i) his play until the end of the season - he seems to have found some chemistry with Hemsky and has started looking a little more confident; and (ii) the team's finances - his contract is EXTREMELY appealing to an owner who covets reaching the cap floor.

Comments about Spezza's skill are pretty unfounded. He has been producing more than a point per game over his entire career - look at the company he keeps in terms of active players: Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Jagr, Selanne. His skills shouldn't be denied.

In terms of value, with one year left on his contract and his injury history, I think the Sens would be looking at a decent defender, a prospect and a first rounder. I do think it would be hard to eek out more than that. I see Phoenix as a good partner (subject to cap space).

hey look prock, you have a twin

point totals - 44th among dmen

+/- is actually 15 not 22, and is a completely meaningless stat.......its the same as saying he's been on the ice for more goals then all but 12 dmen in the entire league.

hits and blocks - who cares. his numbers are the same as allstars like gudas, cowen, schenn, stuart, lovejoy, etc.

phaneuf as a top 5 is laughable

chara, keith, suter, subban, seabrook, karlsson, pietrangelo, bouwmeester, doughty, mcdonough, weber, vlasic, edler, letang, hedman, etc, etc, etc

phaneuf is maybe top 20-30, but top 5 is laughable
- sensarmy_11

Not really. Kinda signifies what players are better in terms of just general puck possession and defense.

I believe Spezza will be traded. He is not unlike the Sundin affect in Toronto. Ottawa has great young talent in their system, they need to create space and playing time for the young guys to move up.

I see Spezza going to Anahiem (especially in light of ther swoon since the Olympic break) or Los Angeles. I see a return that is essentially a reversal of the Bobby Ryan deal.

Not really. Kinda signifies what players are better in terms of just general puck possession and defense.
- blacksheep1

No it doesn't. If you're going to try to isolate defensive acumen, you're better off looking only at goals against while on the ice. It's difficult to measure defense vs measuring offense, but that is one thing that can be looked at for Dmen.

Even that, however, is influenced by a few things. Like ice time, linemates, and most importantly, goaltending.

hey look prock, you have a twin

point totals - 44th among dmen

+/- is actually 15 not 22, and is a completely meaningless stat.......its the same as saying he's been on the ice for more goals then all but 12 dmen in the entire league.

hits and blocks - who cares. his numbers are the same as allstars like gudas, cowen, schenn, stuart, lovejoy, etc.

phaneuf as a top 5 is laughable

chara, keith, suter, subban, seabrook, karlsson, pietrangelo, bouwmeester, doughty, mcdonough, weber, vlasic, edler, letang, hedman, etc, etc, etc

phaneuf is maybe top 20-30, but top 5 is laughable
- sensarmy_11

Bouw was attrocious on cgy, funny how he got better on stl. Edler, hedman,letang, McDonough are all questionable / in the same category.

My take on phaneuf is there are a lot of better D in the league, but for the leafs D he is a great fit. Letang is all offense, we have enough of that. Same with purely defensive D. Phaneuf is first line Pp and PK. Hes polarizing for sure. He has glaring errors like a lot of the D you mentioned would on a team like Toronto. If you replaced him with say bouw on STL he'd look amazing. He certainly keeps big guns in check when hes up against them. Hes getting better with age as hes doing less, if that makes sense ( not running around like a meathead all the time). Just my 2 cents

I'd like to see Hemmer re-sign, hes looked good with spezza

Buff for Spezza
- Muskwa

This i could see actually

every time prock posts i'm reminded of a line from the movie snatch:

never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
- sensarmy_11

So true!

hey look prock, you have a twin

point totals - 44th among dmen

+/- is actually 15 not 22, and is a completely meaningless stat.......its the same as saying he's been on the ice for more goals then all but 12 dmen in the entire league.

hits and blocks - who cares. his numbers are the same as allstars like gudas, cowen, schenn, stuart, lovejoy, etc.

phaneuf as a top 5 is laughable

chara, keith, suter, subban, seabrook, karlsson, pietrangelo, bouwmeester, doughty, mcdonough, weber, vlasic, edler, letang, hedman, etc, etc, etc

phaneuf is maybe top 20-30, but top 5 is laughable
- sensarmy_11

Not to say that I completely disagree, but what metrics are you using to determine your "best defencemen" list other than opinion?

No it doesn't. If you're going to try to isolate defensive acumen, you're better off looking only at goals against while on the ice. It's difficult to measure defense vs measuring offense, but that is one thing that can be looked at for Dmen.

Even that, however, is influenced by a few things. Like ice time, linemates, and most importantly, goaltending.
- prock

Everything you just wrote makes a case in karlsson's favour you know.

2nd most TOI in the league, linemate has been cowen most of the season, and subpar goaltending most of the season

Love that you use these facts to defend phaneuf, and ignore them for karlsson

The draft should be fun this year with the cap going up, and also a few more buyouts used to clear up space for some teams.
- Nucker101

The cap may not go up as much as they thought. The erosion of the Canadian dollar may hurt the cap by about a million dollars.

Everything you just wrote makes a case in karlsson's favour you know.

2nd most TOI in the league, linemate has been cowen most of the season, and subpar goaltending most of the season

Love that you use these facts to defend phaneuf, and ignore them for karlsson


- sensarmy_11

Umm, no. Despite having some factors that influence that, he's still NUMBER 1 in the entire league for ES goals against while on the ice. There's only so much influence those things can have before the only explanation is that he just isnt' very good defensively.

Besides, I wasn't using them to defend Phaneuf at all. I was merely pointing out pure +/- isn't very good for judging defensive ability alone.

i thought we were talking about spezza, not clarkson or phaneuf.

top line center with 7 mil cap hit and 4 mil actual money...........SO awful

like i said, predictability of stupidity
- sensarmy_11

Stop falling for his stupidity, he's just trolling and is good at it with all the practice he has! Just ignore him instead of giving him satisfaction that he's getting under the skin of other more intelligent fans then him!

I believe Spezza will be traded. He is not unlike the Sundin affect in Toronto. Ottawa has great young talent in their system, they need to create space and playing time for the young guys to move up.

I see Spezza going to Anahiem (especially in light of ther swoon since the Olympic break) or Los Angeles. I see a return that is essentially a reversal of the Bobby Ryan deal.
- spatso

This would be pretty good for Ottawa. I think the smart hockey move is to move him. That said, i think our owner is now really hesitant to move veterans because of his complete bugger up of the Alfie mess. I think that's why they signed Philips to a contract that really is inflated and why I think they might keep Spezza. The owner is feeling the effects of having let down his fanbase and is *trying* to make up for it (for the record, he's failing miserably).

Umm, no. Despite having some factors that influence that, he's still NUMBER 1 in the entire league for ES goals against while on the ice. There's only so much influence those things can have before the only explanation is that he just isnt' very good defensively.
- prock

And phaneuf is 13, so he sucks too then........oh, and he's been on for that many despite having goalies putting up great numbers this year

So what's the explanation for that?

I'd like to see Hemmer re-sign, hes looked good with spezza
- since93

I think that would be damn nice if they both keep playing like this. But what happens to Ziba? Are we wasting him in a third line role?

And phaneuf is 13, so he sucks too then........oh, and he's been on for that many despite having goalies putting up great numbers this year

So what's the explanation for that?
- sensarmy_11

First, see edit above. Second, Phaneuf is not 13th.

ES goals against while on the ice. Now, try go back, look at them, and think about that for a minute.

No it doesn't. If you're going to try to isolate defensive acumen, you're better off looking only at goals against while on the ice. It's difficult to measure defense vs measuring offense, but that is one thing that can be looked at for Dmen.

Even that, however, is influenced by a few things. Like ice time, linemates, and most importantly, goaltending.
- prock

Now your being silly again. If a player is on the ice for 30 minutes facing up against the other teams best player (as Karlsson was last game) and two goals are scored against; do you really believe this is a more negative stat than the guy playing 10 minutes and giving up a goal against a third or fourth liner.

You need to think this through. It really does not make much sense.

That WAS a pretty solid hit he laid on JVR the other night
- Jordo

Yeah, that was priceless!