Okay. Real numbers. Kesler has outscored spezza in three if the past four seasons. And despite plus minus being a bad stat to compare, equal or better in every one of those seasons.

It also makes me laugh that you think that I'm arguing on behalf of a canuck because I hate the sens. I guess you're not familiar with my sentiments towards the canucks?
- prock

I think there is no team you hate more than Ottawa. That is the only thing you bring to any thread about Ottawa or Ottawa's players - hate. You are a troll. Your comments are not worth anything and should be exposed as garbage. What makes me laugh is that you think you are somehow knowledageble about this sport. What makes me laugh is your extremely poor ability to present an argument based on fact.

Let's have a little closer look at the last four seasons. Right off the bat I see you are not including this season and you are including the 20012-13 season where these men played a combined 22 games. Very clever of you. Excellent sample size, prock.

Another fine example of prock logic on display folks. Let's not include this year where Spezza is by far the better player, include last year where Spezza plays 5 games and Kessler plays 17 and present it as a good sample size and then include Kessler's best career seasons (and only truly good seasons in his career) where he played on the Presidents' Trophy winning team and a Cup contender.

So, in a nut shell, lets ignore this year, include one year that is too small to state much of anything and sneak in Kessler's two best seasons.

Prock Logic: let's pick and choose the sample size so I can win.

As everyone can plainly see where you are pulling your arguments from I dub your posts examples of procktology.

Bravo prock! You are in fine form this morning!

I think there is no team you hate more than Ottawa. That is the only thing you bring to any thread about Ottawa or Ottawa's players - hate. You are a troll. Your comments are not worth anything and should be exposed as garbage. What makes me laugh is that you think you are somehow knowledageble about this sport. What makes me laugh is your extremely poor ability to present an argument based on fact.

Let's have a little closer look at the last four seasons. Right off the bat I see you are not including this season and you are including the 20012-13 season where these men played a combined 22 games. Very clever of you. Excellent sample size, prock.

Another fine example of prock logic on display folks. Let's not include this year where Spezza is by far the better player, include last year where Spezza plays 5 games and Kessler plays 17 and present it as a good sample size and then include Kessler's best career seasons (and only truly good seasons in his career) where he played on the Presidents' Trophy winning team and a Cup contender.

So, in a nut shell, lets ignore this year, include one year that is too small to state much of anything and sneak in Kessler's two best seasons.

Prock Logic: let's pick and choose the sample size so I can win.

As everyone can plainly see where you are pulling your arguments from I dub your posts examples of procktology.

Bravo prock! You are in fine form this morning!
- HoweHatrick

Ahh, you prefer to use his stats from 10 years ago vs the last 4 years.

Ahh, you prefer to use his stats from 10 years ago vs the last 4 years.
- prock

You know, everytime you post a response like this it just further strengthens the fact that you have very weak arguments. What would you do without your emoticons? They seem to be 50% of your content. It is somewhat sad and pathetic. If you cannot come up with a response that actually adresses a counter argument it would be better for you to simply remain silent. Am I using words that are too big for you? Are the sentences and paragraphs too long? Is that the issue? Your reading comprehension is not the best.

What I said was you conveniently left out a year favouring Spezza and included a year that means nothing statistically but is skewed to your favour to attempt to validate a poorly posed statement. Procktology at its best, folks.

You know, everytime you post a response like this it just further strengthens the fact that you have very weak arguments. What would you do without your emoticons? They seem to be 50% of your content. It is somewhat sad and pathetic. If you cannot come up with a response that actually adresses a counter argument it would be better for you to simply remain silent. Am I using words that are too big for you? Are the sentences and paragraphs too long? Is that the issue? Your reading comprehension is not the best.

What I said was you conveniently left out a year favouring Spezza and included a year that means nothing statistically but is skewed to your favour. Procktology at its best, folks.
- HoweHatrick

Nah, you've made yourself look like an idiot.

So let us use the most recent statistics available.

Using your proposed sample size of the last 4 seasons, including this year, breaks down like this:

Spezza: 207 GP with 199 points.
Kessler: 243 GP with 175 points.

Kessler's had 36 more games to outscore Spezza but has not managed to pull it off.

Name calling!? Very clever! The substance of your posts is truly insightful.

Dodge the facts, prock. Keep on trollin' on.

So let us use the most recent statistics available.

Using your proposed sample size of the last 4 seasons, including this year, breaks down like this:

Spezza: 207 GP with 199 points.
Kessler: 243 GP with 175 points.

Kessler's had 36 more games to outscore Spezza but has not managed to pull it off.
- HoweHatrick

What's that, 10%? Average of 6 points per season? Hahahaha. Oops, there goes that whole notion of spezzas offense being enough more to overcome the defensive deficiencies.

Buy bye.

What's that, 10%? Average of 6 points per season? Hahahaha. Oops, there goes that whole notion of spezzas offense being enough more to overcome the defensive deficiencies.

Buy bye.
- prock

Add in a point per game for the lost time and yes, it does. Lets not forget Kessler is a -13 this year. They are both not so great defensively as of late.

Are you going to stop by Mr. Yosts threads this week and get yourself banned again?

Add in a point per game for the lost time and yes, it does. Lets not forget Kessler is a -13 this year. They are both not so great defensively as of late.

Are you going to stop by Mr. Yosts threads this week and get yourself banned again?
- HoweHatrick

Umm never got banned.

So 10% then????

And yes he is miles better defensively.

Umm never got banned.

So 10% then????

And yes he is miles better defensively.
- prock

Sorry - Are you going to stop by Mr. Yost's threads and have the moderators tell you to leave or get banned for derailing discussions and trolling?

Miles? Please. Not even you can be that delusional.

I will take Spezza's 0.96 points per game over Kesslers 0.72 for $1M less in salary, thanks. That is not to say I would not welcome Kessler. I think he is a great player as well.

Here is an honest question. Do you really believe all the things you post or is it simply the troll thing going on?

Sorry - Are you going to stop by Mr. Yost's threads and have the moderators tell you to leave or get banned for derailing discussions and trolling?

Miles? Please. Not even you can be that delusional.

I will take Spezza's 0.96 points per game over Kesslers 0.72 for $1M less in salary, thanks. That is not to say I would not welcome Kessler. I think he is a great player as well.

Here is an honest question. Do you really believe all the things you post or is it simply the troll thing going on?
- HoweHatrick

10% more offense. 40% less defense.

His positive frequently outweigh his negatives, that is true.

But it is a fact Karlsson is a defensive liability. If Sens fans weren't being ridiculous in claiming that he is not a liability, you probably wouldn't get the same reaction as you do. Just be realistic on things, and stop denying he's terrible defensively. It's not like the rest of us are denying he's the best offensively in the league. If we can do it, why can't you?
- prock

your a nashville fan... how many sens games have you watched? You dont know much about hockey and probably have never played it at a high level.


Karlsson is the best skater in the league he can catch up to anyone and he has a really "good stick" meaning his poke checking and ability to direct traffic yeah he has his moments where he gets caught but U cant say hes a liability when hes on the ice half the game, the sens have other defenceman who are wayyyy more of liabilities. trust me karlsson is the least of my troubles regarding defensive liabilities

10% more offense. 40% less defense.

- prock

That's it, avoid the discussion and post more emoticons. Your obvious answer is that you are a troll and nothing more.

Such poor character. What a joke.

your a nashville fan... how many sens games have you watched? You dont know much about hockey and probably have never played it at a high level.
- FutureDynasty

He is a Leafs fan. I agree that you can easily surmise that his hockey knowledge is rudimentary at best.

That's it, avoid the discussion and post more emoticons. Your obvious answer is that you are a troll and nothing more.

Such poor character. What a joke.




He is a Leafs fan. I agree that you can easily surmise that his hockey knowledge is rudimentary at best.
- HoweHatrick

Says the guy using +/- to show defensive effectiveness.

Says the guy using +/- to show defensive effectiveness.
- prock

Says the guy who cannot grasp grade 6 mathematics, has zero ability to reason, no logical prowess and has nothing to add to discuss other than emoticons and trolling.

See, I can dumb it down to your level. Too bad you cannot elevate yours to a basic understanding of the game.

If I added emoticons would it help you? Maybe a few pictures?

Says the guy who cannot grasp grade 6 mathematics, has zero ability to reason, no logical prowess and has nothing to add to discuss other than emoticons and trolling.

See, I can dumb it down to your level. Too bad you cannot elevate yours to a basic understanding of the game.

If I added emoticons would it help you? Maybe a few pictures?
- HoweHatrick

What is 175 of this 199? Bout 14%? Not 40!

What is 175 of this 199? Bout 14%? Not 40!
- prock

Spezza's career numbers are 40% better than Kessler's for point production. when i said that, we were looking at their careers. Nice try though.

Here is an emoticon to help you understand.

Should I draw you a picture too?

Sorry - Are you going to stop by Mr. Yost's threads and have the moderators tell you to leave or get banned for derailing discussions and trolling?

Miles? Please. Not even you can be that delusional.

I will take Spezza's 0.96 points per game over Kesslers 0.72 for $1M less in salary, thanks. That is not to say I would not welcome Kessler. I think he is a great player as well.

Here is an honest question. Do you really believe all the things you post or is it simply the troll thing going on?
- HoweHatrick

Dude,

I am not going to comment on who is winning the cock show between you two.

I will say that, IMO, I think you are crazy if you believe Spezza has more value at this stage of his career than Kesler. I doubt anyone around here hate Vancouver and Kesler more than I do.

Like it or not, the injuries are a concern and I am pretty sure most of us no longer view Spezza the same way we did a few years ago.

Dude,

I am not going to comment on who is winning the cock show between you two.

I will say that, IMO, I think you are crazy if you believe Spezza has more value at this stage of his career than Kesler. I doubt anyone around here hate Vancouver and Kesler more than I do.

Like it or not, the injuries are a concern and I am pretty sure most of us no longer view Spezza the same way we did a few years ago.
- Aetherial

That's not what I said, but thanks. I am simply comparing the players career and pointing out that prock is a troll that needs to be put in his place. You can substitute troll for a number of derogatory words - several come to mind. Replacing the "o" with an "i" would be fitting.

let's wait for prock to come back with a few and more blabber.

I think Kessler is a fine player and every team would love to have him. I have already said that. I stooped to his level for long enough and I have wasted too much time.

You know what they say about rolling around in the mud with a prock.

That's not what I said, but thanks. I am simply comparing the players career and pointing out that prock is a troll that needs to be put in his place. You can substitute troll for a number of derogatory words - several come to mind. Replacing the "o" with an "i" would be fitting.

let's wait for prock to come back with a few and more blabber.

I think Kessler is a fine player and every team would love to have him. I have already said that. I stooped to his level for long enough and I have wasted too much time.

You know what they say about rolling around in the mud with a prock.
- HoweHatrick

That is most certainly what you were implying.

Spezza has 53 points in 60 games this year and is a career 674 points in 670 games (1.0 Points/Game), is injury prone and has a bad contract at $4M ($7M Cap Hit).

Kesler has 40 points in 67 games this year and is a career 390 points in 645 games (0.6 Points/Game) but his injury history is only "a bit of concern" and he is under paid at $5M.

- HoweHatrick

Why would you post all this crap, calling it stupid logic when Spezza has a $2M higher cap hit, etc etc?

I love that you're trying to backtrack.

That is most certainly what you were implying.



Why would you post all this crap, calling it stupid logic when Spezza has a $2M higher cap hit, etc etc?

I love that you're trying to backtrack.
- prock

The entire argument is based on your hypocrisy saying Kessler is so much better.

The fact is he is as injury prone over very close to being injury prone as Spezza. Spezza scores more points and Kessler is better definsively. There is not the disparity in value you claim there is. Not in the least. Spezza costs the Senators $1M less than Kessler costs the Canucks. You can atleast get those numbers right.

You are a Senators troll. You are not nearly as clever as you think you are.

You are the joke of the forum.

Anyway, continue on with the trolling prock. Have a nice day.

The entire argument is based on your hypocrisy saying Kessler is so much better.

The fact is he is as injury prone over very close to being injury prone as Spezza. Spezza scores more points and Kessler is better definsively. There is not the disparity in value you claim there is. Not in the least. Spezza costs the Senators $1M less than Kessler costs the Canucks. You can atleast get those numbers right.

You are a Senators troll. You are not nearly as clever as you think you are.

You are the joke of the forum.

Anyway, continue on with the trolling prock. Have a nice day.
- HoweHatrick

Hahahhahahaha. So now, you get called out on backtracking, and so you turn to trying to distort what I said.

Cap hit is the key to teams that matter. So its 7 mil vs 5 mil. Kesler isn't as much of an injury concern. He's also one of the better defensive players in the league while spezza is a liability.

I'd put them at similar value when you balance everything out. As a player I'd prefer kesler.
- prock

hahahahahhaahaha.

Hahahhahahaha. So now, you get called out on backtracking, and so you turn to trying to distort what I said.




hahahahahhaahaha.
- prock

Saying I am backtracking by posting your own backtracking?

Here you go!



Amazing. Simply amazing.

25 years old to start next year. Guys that are that old rarely make huge jumps forward. A star? I'd say the chances of that are slim to none.

In fact, given his years and years of crap play, his crap play recently, and the fact that he's crap, I'm gonna say it's more likely he doesn't crack 50 points next year. He's already returned to that level of output. Lower, in fact.
- prock

That "bum" Kyle Turris is also outperforming Kessler both offensively and defensively this year against the oppositions 1st line and he is doing it for $1.5M less. We cannot compare the year before because Kessler missed almost the entire season injured.

There I go again with (true) facts and numbers though. Sorry about that.
- HoweHatrick

I notice you never touched this. This is the kind of post that makes your true colors shine. You are a complete farce.

I notice you never touched this. This is the kind of post that makes your true colors shine. You are a complete farce.
- HoweHatrick

I can only deal with so much of your stupidity at once.