easy there big fella, Turris is a solid 2nd line center on most teams in the league. your stats pretty much back that assumption up.
- GardinerExpress

I know that - I was responding to the assertion that he "sucks." He's a good hockey player, and might get a bit better.

I know that - I was responding to the assertion that he "sucks." He's a good hockey player, and might get a bit better.
- amanicom

My money is on him not cracking 50 points again next year.

Kesler and Spezza are both over rated and not worth the money they make.

They could be a piece to build with but they are not franchise corner stones.

Kesler and Spezza are both over rated and not worth the money they make.

They could be a piece to build with but they are not franchise corner stones.
- 13LEAFS01

TBH most pro athletes arent worth the money they make

Kesler and Spezza are both over rated and not worth the money they make.

They could be a piece to build with but they are not franchise corner stones.
- 13LEAFS01

Kesler isn't worth 5 million?

Kesler isn't worth 5 million?
- Nucker101

yeah he is. He's got a pretty fair salary. Maybe even underpaid by a half million.

when he's healthy anyway. Injuries a bit of a concern. Healthy this year though. On a decent team I think he could probably get back to 30 goals 60 points.

yeah he is. He's got a pretty fair salary. Maybe even underpaid by a half million.

when he's healthy anyway. Injuries a bit of a concern.
- prock

Exactly. Getting overplayed by his desperate coach is also an issue, but he's well worth the 5 million.

Yep...Horrible Rink location wont change in Ott either.......No one gonna buy that team and expect to make coin especially given a new rink would have to be built and it would take yrs to get that back....

Disappearing Gov jobs and that city just doesn't have the coin base to support a team...

It's done..EM has lost millions trying to make it work no one is gonna be willing to go down that road again..
- Fruitcakenipple

Meh... I think the NHL is more likely to add another team just north of the 401 in the GTA... Can't wait to see another team put a dent in your fan base....

yeah he is. He's got a pretty fair salary. Maybe even underpaid by a half million.

when he's healthy anyway. Injuries a bit of a concern. Healthy this year though. On a decent team I think he could probably get back to 30 goals 60 points.
- prock

Prock Logic 101:

Spezza has 53 points in 60 games this year and is a career 674 points in 670 games (1.0 Points/Game), is injury prone and has a bad contract at $4M ($7M Cap Hit).

Kesler has 40 points in 67 games this year and is a career 390 points in 645 games (0.6 Points/Game) but his injury history is only "a bit of concern" and he is under paid at $5M.

2014/03/13 Knee injury, day-to-day. (Two/Three Weeks)
2014/02/28 Missed 1 game (right hand injury).
2014/02/26 Right hand injury, day-to-day.
2013/04/08 Missed 19 games (broken right foot).
2013/03/02 Broken right foot, injured reserve.
2013/02/15 Missed 12 games (shoulder injury).
2013/01/18 Shoulder injury, injured reserve.
2011/10/18 Missed 5 games (left hip surgery).
2011/10/05 Left hip surgery, injured reserve.
2007/05/04 Missed the last 6 games of Round One against the Dallas Stars and all 5 games of Round Two against the Anaheim Ducks (broken finger).
2007/04/13 Broken finger, sidelined indefinitely.
2007/04/11 Missed the last 34 games of the regular season (hip surgery).
2007/01/26 Hip surgery, sidelined indefinitely.

Prock Logic 101:

Spezza has 53 points in 60 games this year and is a career 674 points in 670 games (1.0 Points/Game), is injury prone and has a bad contract at $4M ($7M Cap Hit).

Kesler has 40 points in 67 games this year and is a career 390 points in 645 games (0.6 Points/Game) but his injury history is only "a bit of concern" and he is under paid at $5M.

2014/03/13 Knee injury, day-to-day. (Two/Three Weeks)
2014/02/28 Missed 1 game (right hand injury).
2014/02/26 Right hand injury, day-to-day.
2013/04/08 Missed 19 games (broken right foot).
2013/03/02 Broken right foot, injured reserve.
2013/02/15 Missed 12 games (shoulder injury).
2013/01/18 Shoulder injury, injured reserve.
2011/10/18 Missed 5 games (left hip surgery).
2011/10/05 Left hip surgery, injured reserve.
2007/05/04 Missed the last 6 games of Round One against the Dallas Stars and all 5 games of Round Two against the Anaheim Ducks (broken finger).
2007/04/13 Broken finger, sidelined indefinitely.
2007/04/11 Missed the last 34 games of the regular season (hip surgery).
2007/01/26 Hip surgery, sidelined indefinitely.
- HoweHatrick

Cap hit is the key to teams that matter. So its 7 mil vs 5 mil. Kesler isn't as much of an injury concern. He's also one of the better defensive players in the league while spezza is a liability.

I'd put them at similar value when you balance everything out. As a player I'd prefer kesler.

Cap hit is the key to teams that matter. So its 7 mil vs 5 mil. Kesler isn't as much of an injury concern. He's also one of the better defensive players in the league while spezza is a liability.


I'd put them at similar value when you balance everything out. As a player I'd prefer kesler.
- prock

Spezza's cap hit: To the teams that matter? Very eloquent. On others, it is a blessing.

Spezza is a career +59 in 670 games.
Kessler is a career +27 in 645 games.

That said, do not let the facts and numbers get in the way of your blind hatred.

Spezza's cap hit: To the teams that matter? Very eloquent. On others, it is a blessing.

Spezza is a career +59 in 670 games.
Kessler is a career +27 in 645 games.

That said, do not let the facts and numbers get in the way of your blind hatred.
- HoweHatrick

You're right, spezza is better defensively.

You're right, spezza is better defensively.

- prock

Kessler is looking very defensive at a -13 this year and -5 the year before.

I can at every one of your posts. It does not make the garbage you post any better though.

You are a sad little man.

Kessler is looking very defensive at a -13 this year and -5 the year before.

I can at every one of your posts. It does not make the garbage you post any better though.

You are a sad little man.
- HoweHatrick

Do you really believe spezza is good defensively? That's an honest question.

Do you really believe spezza is good defensively? That's an honest question.
- prock

The proper question here is: Do you really believe Kessler is so much better defensively than Spezza to account for a 40% difference in point production?

I will take a point per game player that is not as defensively responsible over a 0.6 game player that is somewhat better defensively any day.

For the record, I would take Erik Karlsson over any defenceman on the Leafs (or Canucks). I would wager nearly every GM in the NHL would as well.

That "bum" Kyle Turris is also outperforming Kessler both offensively and defensively this year against the oppositions 1st line and he is doing it for $1.5M less. We cannot compare the year before because Kessler missed almost the entire season injured.

There I go again with (true) facts and numbers though. Sorry about that.

The proper question here is: Do you really believe Kessler is so much better defensively than Spezza to account for a 40% difference in point production?

I will take a point per game player that is not as defensively responsible over a 0.6 game player that is somewhat better defensively any day.

For the record, I would take Erik Karlsson over any defenceman on the Leafs (or Canucks). I would wager nearly every GM in the NHL would as well.
- HoweHatrick

Its not a 40% point difference. More like 10 or 15 points. And yes I think he makes up that difference with his defensive play. And grit.

Its not a 40% point difference. More like 10 or 15 points. And yes I think he makes up that difference with his defensive play. And grit.
- prock

Please. 10 or 15 points can be any fraction/percentile without reference. This is half of what you do - you spew useless garbage.

Spezza - 674 points in 670 games (1.0 Points/Game)

Kesler - 390 points in 645 games (0.6 Points/Game)


Over their careers it certainly is a 40% difference in production.

This year it is roughly 30%.

Please. 10 or 15 points can be any fraction/percentile without reference. This is half of what you do - you spew useless garbage.

Spezza - 674 points in 670 games (1.0 Points/Game)

Kesler - 390 points in 645 games (0.6 Points/Game)


Over their careers it certainly is a 40% difference in production.

This year it is roughly 30%.
- HoweHatrick

Over their careers?

Why should I care what these guys did five years ago?

In a healthy year, I'd say spezza tops out at 80 or so. Kesler tops out at 65 or 70.

With a disparity on time spent on pp vs pk.

Over their careers?

Why should I care what these guys did five years ago?

In a healthy year, I'd say spezza tops out at 80 or so. Kesler tops out at 65 or 70.

With a disparity on time spent on pp vs pk.
- prock

Why? Looking at the real value of the player and the real percentages and numbers is much more accurate than your preferred method of garbage use.

In a healthy year? What is wrong with you? You just went on and on about injuries? Do you even read your own garbage?

FYI, 15 points could be 20, 30, 40 or 100% more points. We can work on your grade 6 math later though.

OK - Let's look at this year. Spezza has 25-30% more points in less games and Kessler is out for 2-3 weeks.

Maybe Spezza will get injured and only keep that meager 25% more points. Or, he will continue as is and make that around 40% more points. Damn, there I go again using solid logic and cold hard facts.

Double post.

Why? Looking at the real value of the player and the real percentages and numbers is much more accurate than your preferred method of garbage use.

In a healthy year? What is wrong with you? You just went on and on about injuries? Do you even read your own garbage?

FYI, 15 points could be 20, 30, 40 or 100% more points. We can work on your grade 6 math later though.

OK - Let's look at this year. Spezza has 25-30% more points in less games and Kessler is out for 2-3 weeks.

Maybe Spezza will get injured and only keep that meager 25% more points. Or, he will continue as is and make that around 40% more points. Damn, there I go again using solid logic and cold hard facts.
- HoweHatrick

Why would I say "in a healthy year"? Because I consider them pretty equal on those grounds. And to be clear that's not a good thing.

So, healthy year for both of them To this point. Had kesler remained healthy, how many points do you see them ending with? Roughly 15 point difference?

FYI, grade six math.... You're talking to the wrong guy saying poop like that.

Why would I say "in a healthy year"? Because I consider them pretty equal on those grounds. And to be clear that's not a good thing.

So, healthy year for both of them To this point. Had kesler remained healthy, how many points do you see them ending with? Roughly 15 point difference?

FYI, grade six math.... You're talking to the wrong guy saying poop like that.
- prock

Your posts are evidence of your math/logic. Go back and read them. Very poorly done, sir.

Using a healthy year, after going on and on about Spezza being highly unlikely to play a full year, makes no sense. It exposes your poor reasoning and a weak argument. It exposes the fact that you are trolling.

Why would you use a hypothetical scenario that you have previously said is extremely unlikely to happen? Solid debate and logic on display, folks.

I have something novel for you to consider. Let us use facts. Using the players careers - past and present - is much more accurate. No need for a hypothetical year.

Again, my apologies for letting facts get in the way of your hating. It certainly cramps your style when you are faced with facts.

You can drive a an 18 wheeler through your arguments, prock. Pile on the garbage.

Your posts are evidence of your math/logic. Go back and read them. Very poorly done, sir.

Using a healthy year, after going on and on about Spezza being highly unlikely to play a full year, makes no sense. It exposes your poor reasoning and a weak argument. It exposes the fact that you are trolling.

Why would you use a hypothetical scenario that you have previously said is extremely unlikely to happen? Solid debate and logic on display, folks.

I have something novel for you to consider. Let us use facts. Using the players careers - past and present - is much more accurate. No need for a hypothetical year.

Again, my apologies for letting facts get in the way of your hating. It certainly cramps your style when you are faced with facts.

You can drive a an 18 wheeler through your arguments, prock. Pile on the garbage.
- HoweHatrick

Okay. Real numbers. Kesler has outscored spezza in three if the past four seasons. And despite plus minus being a bad stat to compare, equal or better in every one of those seasons.

It also makes me laugh that you think that I'm arguing on behalf of a canuck because I hate the sens. I guess you're not familiar with my sentiments towards the canucks?