The small cap neutered Shero's ability to fill out the roster this year. This was a year in which teams who spend to the cap ceiling can't afford injuries. The Penguins have had injuries.
- Ryan_Wilson

Did you happen to read thepensblog analysis regarding why the bottom 6 are dreadful this year and have been trending towards that direction? Not saying they are right or wrong, but it is some pretty damning analysis.

Did you happen to read thepensblog analysis regarding why the bottom 6 are dreadful this year and have been trending towards that direction? Not saying they are right or wrong, but it is some pretty damning analysis.
- Rawdog9755

Yes, and it was a very well done piece.

I'll be bringing that piece up today.

Yes, and it was a very well done piece.

I'll be bringing that piece up today.
- Ryan_Wilson

Also noticed recently they gave you a few hat tips in their write ups. Maybe a few more years and you can get a mention between periods by Potash--then you know you have really made it to the big time.

Also noticed recently they gave you a few hat tips in their write ups. Maybe a few more years and you can get a mention between periods by Potash--then you know you have really made it to the big time.
- Rawdog9755

"Thanks Daaaaaaaaan"

Did you happen to read thepensblog analysis regarding why the bottom 6 are dreadful this year and have been trending towards that direction? Not saying they are right or wrong, but it is some pretty damning analysis.
- Rawdog9755

I read a lot of it. It's a good discussion point. The main criticisms of it are the idea he's arguing Patrick drafted NHL players when in a lot of cases they were NHL players for bad teams. Does Luca Caputi stay in the minors if he was in the system back in 05? Probably not. That team was dreadful.

Or in the case of Whitney and Goligoski, the Pens were able to maximize the return on moving them because they weren't exposed by playing on bad teams. Does that mean they were good players? Not necessarily. Good picks sure (more so Goligoski)

They also sort of answered their question later in the piece. Shero drafts a lot of defensemen, combined with the fact he's often been working with late "lottery" draft picks than Patrick. Less picks means less chances of hitting on a late prospect. Shero has moved a lot of picks past the 1st round for deadline deals. Something Patrick didn't do for the last 4-5 years in charge.

I also don't think undrafted players should be discounted like they are. Being able to attract late developing players can be effective. Ideally we hang on to Lestestu, a player that again probably puts up a productive career on a bad Pens team. The team wasn't bad when he was on it. He wasn't getting enough ice time.

I read a lot of it. It's a good discussion point. The main criticisms of it are the idea he's arguing Patrick drafted NHL players when in a lot of cases they were NHL players for bad teams. Does Luca Caputi stay in the minors if he was in the system back in 05? Probably not. That team was dreadful.

Or in the case of Whitney and Goligoski, the Pens were able to maximize the return on moving them because they weren't exposed by playing on bad teams. Does that mean they were good picks? Not necessarily.

They also sort of answered their question later in the piece. Shero drafts a lot of defensemen, combined with the fact he's often been working with late "lottery" draft picks than Patrick. Less picks means less chances of hitting on a late prospect. Shero has moved a lot of picks past the 1st round for deadline deals. Something Patrick didn't do for the last 4-5 years in charge.

I also don't think undrafted players should be discounted like they are. Being able to attract late developing players can be effective.
- Deadstar

There is a lot of info to digest in their write-up, but the biggest point I took out of it is that since Shero took over in 2006, the most productive NHL forward the team has drafted is Dustin Jeffrey.....Think about that. In 8 years under Shero, they havent drafted ONE serviceable 3rd/4th liner. For all the things Shero does right, that is unacceptable.

There is a lot of info to digest in their write-up, but the biggest point I took out of it is that since Shero took over in 2006, the most productive NHL forward the team has drafted is Dustin Jeffrey.....Think about that. In 8 years under Shero, they havent drafted ONE serviceable 3rd/4th liner. For all the things Shero does right, that is unacceptable.
- Rawdog9755

I think if you look at a lot of forward picks, Shero is drafting high risk/high reward forwards. Zabotel types who put up a ton of points but would never be 3rd/4th lines if they make it to the NHL. The prevailing theory being that 3rd/4th line guys are much easier to acquire and build out through trades/free agency than top line players.

For the most part its held up. Hard to argue with the 3rd and 4th lines Shero's iced since he's been GM outside of this year (cap issues notwithstanding). Yes a lot of the success is due to Staal. But providing solid 3rd and 4th line players was something Craig Patrick really struggled with. Or in the Pensblog article, you could make the case he supplied them with a team of them.

I think if you look at a lot of forward picks, Shero is drafting high risk/high reward forwards. Zabotel types who put up a ton of points but would never be 3rd/4th lines if they make it to the NHL. The prevailing theory being that 3rd/4th line guys are much easier to acquire and build out through trades/free agency than top line players.

For the most part its held up. Hard to argue with the 3rd and 4th lines Shero's iced since he's been GM outside of this year (cap issues notwithstanding). Yes a lot of the success is due to Staal. But providing solid 3rd and 4th line players was something Craig Patrick really struggled with. Or in the Pensblog article, you could make the case he supplied them with a team of them.
- Deadstar

It is just hard to believe that Shero couldnt "luck" into drafting his own TK, Talbot, Armstrong, etc. Those are the kinds of players I would expect him to find drafting later in rounds(and generally later in the draft) due to team success, and trading away of 1st/2nd rnd picks.

It is just hard to believe that Shero couldnt "luck" into drafting his own TK, Talbot, Armstrong, etc. Those are the kinds of players I would expect him to find drafting later in rounds(and generally later in the draft) due to team success, and trading away of 1st/2nd rnd picks.
- Rawdog9755

Strange thing is that for a while now, we've been hearing about the team looking for players who "played like Penguins"... competetive, high motor guys... Those types of guys are textbook 3rd liners, but we haven't seen that philosophy produce any yet.

Strange thing is that for a while now, we've been hearing about the team looking for players who "played like Penguins"... competetive, high motor guys... Those types of guys are textbook 3rd liners, but we haven't seen that philosophy produce any yet.
- rival22

The other part that is odd is that Shero clearly prefers North American born players generally speaking. The kind of guys we could use as productive 3rd liners are typically the "bread and butter" players---they are more often than not American or Canadian. That is the hardest thing for me to understand regarding not "lucking" into drafting one of them.

Strange thing is that for a while now, we've been hearing about the team looking for players who "played like Penguins"... competetive, high motor guys... Those types of guys are textbook 3rd liners, but we haven't seen that philosophy produce any yet.
- rival22

While you're right about them looking for a certain type of player, what forwards drafted would fit under that criteria?





Veilleux looked to have a lot of potential but got hurt every year. Nathan Moon maybe, but he was a head case who didn't get signed. Kuhnhackl for sure but that's really only 1. It's not really expected for 2012 and on to have made an impact yet.

While you're right about them looking for a certain type of player, what forwards drafted would fit under that criteria?





Veilleux looked to have a lot of potential but got hurt every year. Nathan Moon maybe, but he was a head case who didn't get signed. Kuhnhackl for sure but that's really only 1. It's not really expected for 2012 and on to have made an impact yet.
- Deadstar

Good point.. In addition to Kunhackl and Vellieux, maybe Uher, maybe Hanowski... I don't know.

And they seem to be successful in getting a lot of pretty highly regarded NCAA free agents, and while they've added some depth to the AHL, you'd think that you could get a good grinder out of that bunch as well.