Sarah Baicker ‏@sbaickerCSN 7m
So ... Giroux and Simmonds will suit up for the World All-Stars and take on the Harlem Globetrotters Sunday at 5 p.m. at the @WellsFargoCtr.

what?
- JAKEw1234

I'm surprised they are allowed to participate in something like this during the season. What if Giroux tears his achilles running from Meadowlark Lemon and a bucket of water.

I'm surprised they are allowed to participate in something like this during the season. What if Giroux tears his achilles running from Meadowlark Lemon and a bucket of water.
- PLindbergh31

I realize that you can't put players in boxes lined with Styrofoam, but yeah. I'll never forget how Patriots RB Robert Edwards ruined his knee while participating in the obstacle course at the freaking Pro Bowl.

He lost MILLIONS of dollars in future salary, made a comeback attempt after rehabbing, was out of the league in two years.

So, yeah. I'm not wanting the Flyers' Franchise Player running around on a freaking basketball court.

I'm surprised they are allowed to participate in something like this during the season. What if Giroux tears his achilles running from Meadowlark Lemon and a bucket of water.
- PLindbergh31

crosby will step in and have yzerman remove giroux from the event anyway

I think they've gotten their escrow back most years if I'm not mistaken.
- MJL

LeBrun had a nice run-down of the years pre-2013:

Most years, the players get some of the escrow money back, and sometimes all of it. Here's how the escrow worked out once the final HRR numbers were finalized each season:

2005-06: The net result was that each player earned 104.64 percent of his 2005-06 contract (includes the shortfall and interest). Players' share was 54 percent of HRR.

2006-07: The net result was that each player earned 97.51 percent of his 2006-07 contract. Players' share was 55.6 percent of HRR.

2007-08: The net result was that each player earned 100.66 percent of his 2007-08 contract. Players' share was 56.7 percent of HRR.

2008-09: The net result was that each player earned 87.12 percent of his 2008-09 contract. Players' share was 56.73 percent of HRR.

2009-10: The net result was that each player earned 90.59 percent of his 2009-10 contract. Players' share was 57 percent of HRR.

2010-11: The net result was that each player earned 97.7 percent of his 2010-11 contract. Players' share was 57 percent of HRR.

2011-12: The net result was that each player earned 99.48 percent of his 2011-12 contract. They got back just under 8 percent of the 8.5 percent they paid in escrow during the year. Players' share was 57 percent of HRR.

I guess my point was, even if Pronger, Savard and Letang were all allowed to retire while still counting against the players' share for the duration of their deals, it would only equal about $16-17M against $2B+ of the total amount paid to players... that's like well shy of 1%. That's the same ~1% they're taking up right now, being on LTIR.

Again, the only differences would be procedural... allow them to retire on their own terms while still getting paid, and their clubs can pretend they don't exist for cap purposes.

crosby will step in and have yzerman remove giroux from the event anyway
- Crimsoninja

lol. Stevie Y has created a monster! Giroux has had a fire lit under his ass since the Olympic snub. BP87 was right!

lol. Stevie Y has created a monster! Giroux has had a fire lit under his ass since the Olympic snub. BP87 was right!
- PLindbergh31

(frank)ing hate that they won gold

crosby will step in and have yzerman remove giroux from the event anyway
- Crimsoninja

lol. Stevie Y has created a monster! Giroux has had a fire lit under his ass since the Olympic snub. BP87 was right!
- PLindbergh31

(frank)ing hate that they won gold
- Crimsoninja

I wasn't happy about it either. The game against Latvia I was on the edge of my seat. If the Latvians could have gotten a bounce they could have won. The goalie stood on his head.

LeBrun had a nice run-down of the years pre-2013:




I guess my point was, even if Pronger, Savard and Letang were all allowed to retire while still counting against the players' share for the duration of their deals, it would only equal about $16-17M against $2B+ of the total amount paid to players... that's like well shy of 1%. That's the same ~1% they're taking up right now, being on LTIR.

Again, the only differences would be procedural... allow them to retire on their own terms while still getting paid, and their clubs can pretend they don't exist for cap purposes.
- Tomahawk

The point is that if escrow is used for that, the players would be essentally paying for other players. Th NHLPA will not go for that.
Clubs pretending that players don't exist while paying them, is exactly what the cap is supposed to prevent. And is the very definition of circumvention. It's money outside the system. All players salary is to be accounted for under the Cap. That is a basic principle of a Salary Cap. The only current exception is the money paid to players who were given a CBO.

- BulliesPhan87

Spence rules!

The point is that if escrow is used for that, the players would be essentally paying for other players. Th NHLPA will not go for that.
Clubs pretending that players don't exist while paying them, is exactly what the cap is supposed to prevent. And is the very definition of circumvention. It's money outside the system. All players salary is to be accounted for under the Cap. That is a basic principle of a Salary Cap. The only current exception is the money paid to players who were given a CBO.
- MJL

Pronger/Savard/Letang wouldn't be outside of the system, they'd be accounted for in the players' share

And it's exactly like the CBO's... players already pay for other players... CBOs, LTIR, shortfalls, etc... PA agreed to that because it saw that it was ultimately in the interests of its members. Same thing here. No sense that Letang, if he never plays again, should hang in limbo until 2022.

- BulliesPhan87

I can see how in theory it would seal off one potential loop hole, but in practice it's pretty farcical. If they're worried about abuse, it would be simple enough to have independent medical people determine that a players career is indeed over, and then shift the salary from the LTIR column over to retired-but-still-paid column.
- Tomahawk

Yeah.. call them the "End of Career" counselors. It'll be the death panel for the NHL.

Pronger/Savard/Letang wouldn't be outside of the system, they'd be accounted for in the players' share

And it's exactly like the CBO's... players already pay for other players... CBOs, LTIR, shortfalls, etc... PA agreed to that because it saw that it was ultimately in the interests of its members. Same thing here. No sense that Letang, if he never plays again, should hang in limbo until 2022.
- Tomahawk

It's not exactly like the CBO's. Owners are paying that money, not the players. And it's free money, not on the system. And if those players are not accounted for on the cap, then they are outside the system. Yes, if Letang can never play again, then he should be accounted for on the cap, until his contract expires.

It's not exactly like the CBO's. Owners are paying that money, not the players. And it's free money, not on the system. And if those players are not accounted for on the cap, then they are outside the system. Yes, if Letang can never play again, then he should be accounted for on the cap, until his contract expires.
- MJL

Imagine it's called a RBO (Retired Buy Out).... just like the CBO, it counts against the player share, but doesn't have to be accounted for in individual teams' cap considerations. All money would be paid out by the owners up to 50% of HRR, with the remained being absorbed by escrow. Same as CBO.

That's all we're talking about here. Nobody's trying to hide money or players in secret corners. The only changes being suggested are procedural, and will only affect players who have no chance of finishing out their contracts due to injury.

It seems a much more elegant and practical way to handle things, while not disturbing the core tenets of the salary cap.

Imagine it's called a RBO (Retired Buy Out).... just like the CBO, it counts against the player share, but doesn't have to be accounted for in individual teams' cap considerations. All money would be paid out by the owners up to 50% of HRR, with the remained being absorbed by escrow. Same as CBO.

That's all we're talking about here. Nobody's trying to hide money or players in secret corners. The only changes being suggested are procedural, and will only affect players who have no chance of finishing out their contracts due to injury.

It seems a much more elegant and practical way to handle things, while not disturbing the core tenets of the salary cap.
- Tomahawk

Lucious Fox could totally take care of this.

Imagine it's called a RBO (Retired Buy Out).... just like the CBO, it counts against the player share, but doesn't have to be accounted for in individual teams' cap considerations. All money would be paid out by the owners up to 50% of HRR, with the remained being absorbed by escrow. Same as CBO.

That's all we're talking about here. Nobody's trying to hide money or players in secret corners. The only changes being suggested are procedural, and will only affect players who have no chance of finishing out their contracts due to injury.
- Tomahawk

It's not the same as CBO. That money is not included as part of the players share. The Cap is the accounting mechanism that the League uses to keep track of player spending. The problem here is that it's being looked at from the fans perspective, as they want it to all go away. But the fans weren't in the CBA negotiation. The players and the owners were. Imagine a Corporation that asks it accountant to pay out money but not put it on the company ledger.
What does what you propose really solve? Nothing at all really. All it is is just creating another column in the ledger, and calling it by a different acronym.

Say if a 'medical buy out' was created for a situation like Pronger's, with the stipulation that for it to be valid the player a)isn't medically cleared to play for 2 years and b)never plays professional hockey again or the team has to pay the money back into the league or something.

It's not the same as CBO. That money is not included as part of the players share.
- MJL

"Elliotte Friedman added to that report with the news that the players made a concession of their own and that the buyouts would not count against the salary cap, but will still be taken out of the players' share of hockey related revenue."

crosby will step in and have yzerman remove giroux from the event anyway
- Crimsoninja

"Elliotte Friedman added to that report with the news that the players made a concession of their own and that the buyouts would not count against the salary cap, but will still be taken out of the players' share of hockey related revenue."
- Tomahawk

Well then I'm mistaken about that.

Lucious Fox could totally take care of this.
- mayorofangrytown

Well done, bringing things full circle.

Say if a 'medical buy out' was created for a situation like Pronger's, with the stipulation that for it to be valid the player a)isn't meducally cleared to play for 2 years and b)never plays professional hockey again or the team has to pay the money back into the league or something.
- MunsterMike

Yeah, and if they want to minimize the effect on HRR, they could pay it out over twice the remaining term like a CBO, or an even more extended period.

It's inevitable that with all these ridiculously long deals that Pronger and Savard are only the beginning. It would be in everybody's interest to put in a mechanism that takes care of the problem so all sides can move on:

- player is taken care of, can retire,
- team can move on cap-wise,
- league still ensures 50/50 split.

Yeah, and if they want to minimize the effect on HRR, they could pay it out over twice the remaining term like a CBO, or an even more extended period.

It's inevitable that with all these ridiculously long deals that Pronger and Savard are only the beginning. It would be in everybody's interest to put in a mechanism that takes care of the problem so all sides can move on:

- player is taken care of,
- team can move on cap-wise,
- league still ensures 50/50 split.
- Tomahawk

All of that is already done.