What fack are Kadri and lupul doing?
Seems like we've become a one line team

Almost like +/- means absolutely nothing. Weird.
- weirdoh

Not necessarily. Why do they even keep track of it then if it's so pointless.

You wouldn't get anyone of Phaneuf caliber to play for less.
- Yeti1181

What's his calibre?

What fack are Kadri and lupul doing?
Seems like we've become a one line team
- Fakepartofme

Once in a while they do something useful but on average both have been poop this year. Way below what I was expecting anyway.

What's his calibre?
- weirdoh

Top 15 d man in the league.

Nothing at all to do with being on the ice when the Leafs top line is.
- weirdoh

I'm going to pile on (cuz I know you like it rough)

He has the highest qualcomp in the NHL for defence men, logs heavy minutes (probably too many), and that top line he gets to play with is only like a +3 or 4 or something. He's been on the ice for about 51 ES goals for and only about 30 ES against.

I watch him and yell "skate you lazy (frank)" at least once a night but somehow whatever the (frank) he's doing …is working. I think he looks bad in part b/c he's out there for a lot of PK goals against.

Not necessarily. Why do they even keep track of it then if it's so pointless.
- Yeti1181

Did you know it wasn't even counted until the 70's? Did you know Wayne Gretzky was a minus more than once because it's a team (frank)ing stat.

Did any of us actually want Clarkson? It was all but certain he'd be overpaid and he's a career a 15 goal 15 assist type player on his career. He's so mediocre.
- daeth

Oh gawd ya, I would say easily 80%. People were loving the idea. Now most of those people are hating it

Top 15 d man in the league.
- Yeti1181

He was top 10 last season. What happened? That 11th finish in the Norris drop him down?

You wouldn't get anyone of Phaneuf caliber to play for less.
- Yeti1181

Phaneuf is fine! He just needs a number 2 defensive partner who can shoot right and chew up minutes. What we have here is a bunch of bottom pair defenders and one decent one. Rielly will be OK in a year or two, but I have no confidence in any of the rest. The first goal tonight was caused by Gardiner going for a skate out to take the shooter at the blue line and not playing his position. He needs to be traded because I just don't see him getting any smarter in his own end.

Is there a way to figure out how many "important" game changing goals go in while he's on the ice?
- weirdoh

I can tell you he is on the ice for just about every game tying or go ahead goal against in the third, pretty pathetic for a shutdown highest paid D man.

Top 15 d man in the league.
- Yeti1181

14-18

What's his calibre?
- weirdoh

Depends who you speak to. People like you, Mark Fraser. People like me, lower end No. 1 dman

I can tell you he is on the ice for just about every game tying or go ahead goal against in the third, pretty pathetic for a shutdown highest paid D man.
- LeafMan

Why aren't they quoting you?

I can tell you he is on the ice for just about every game tying or go ahead goal against in the third, pretty pathetic for a shutdown highest paid D man.
- LeafMan

He has been on the ice for a lot of those.
But I don't think anyone thinks he is a "shutdown" dman, really?

Top 15 d man in the league.
- Yeti1181

I'll give you top 25/30 - which still makes him a #1 Dman in the league.

Although if this guy played for Hitchcock or Julienne he might be top 10. JBo's gone from poophead to stud.

Is there a way to figure out how many "important" game changing goals go in while he's on the ice?
- weirdoh

He's the only guy capable of playing the toughest assignments. I imagine he would be out there more often than not in important, game changing situations. I suspect this is true for nearly every top defender. How many more game changing mistakes don't happen when he's out there against top lines?

What would be helpful is to figure out how much more he brings than a typical replacement player. I'm pretty sure baseball sabermetrics has a way of doing this. I'm not sure it would ever be easy enough to sort through the complexity in hockey to do this, though.

Did you know it wasn't even counted until the 70's? Did you know Wayne Gretzky was a minus more than once because it's a team (frank)ing stat.
- weirdoh

Yes it's a team stat but if there is a considerable gap in best and the next few after it does tend to show something.

Oh gawd ya, I would say easily 80%. People were loving the idea. Now most of those people are hating it
- Fakepartofme

gross. i never wanted that bum.

I can tell you he is on the ice for just about every game tying or go ahead goal against in the third, pretty pathetic for a shutdown highest paid D man.
- LeafMan

Proof please and thank you.

I can tell you he is on the ice for just about every game tying or go ahead goal against in the third, pretty pathetic for a shutdown highest paid D man.
- LeafMan

That could very well be because he is always on the ice in those situations.

I can tell you he is on the ice for just about every game tying or go ahead goal against in the third, pretty pathetic for a shutdown highest paid D man.
- LeafMan

Especially with all our fantastic defensive and 2way forwards. Even worse when you consider he gets to play with gems like Gunnar, Franson and Gardiner

I'll give you top 25/30 - which still makes him a #1 Dman in the league.

Although if this guy played for Hitchcock or Julienne he might be top 10. JBo's gone from poophead to stud.
- The Law

JBo was always a stud, he was just misused in Calgary.

He's the only guy capable of playing the toughest assignments. I imagine he would be out there more often than not in important, game changing situations. I suspect this is true for nearly every top defender. How many more game changing mistakes don't happen when he's out there against top lines?

What would be helpful is to figure out how much more he brings than a typical replacement player. I'm pretty sure baseball sabermetrics has a way of doing this. I'm not sure it would ever be easy enough to sort through the complexity in hockey to do this, though.
- Leeman4Gilmour

You know what frustrates me? Is that he's supposed to be this legit 1st pairing, yet he always seems to be there (frank)ing up an assignment at the worst possible moment. I'm sure I'm being too hard on him for thinking he should play like a #1 guy should. He's better than me though, I'll give him that.

How much more do you think he's being paid than what he's worth?

I'd say he justifies his current 6.5 mil. Next year, he gets 7. Then again, the cap may be 7-8% higher, as well.
- Leeman4Gilmour

He was 1mil overpaid on existing contract..

Jay Bo makes 5.4 on his new deal..Thats a 1.3mil pay cut over last one......Thats all Dion is worth imo...