So Thornton, Heatley, Havlat, Niemi, Burns, Torres, Stuart are all in house players? I would say the Sharks have aquired more of their team then grew them in-house.
- SchennBros

No but you have to look at context....Thornton was one of the most lop sided trades I have even seen...any team would do it..Heatley isnt there anymore, I admit they seem to have a pretty good trading relationship with Minny i.e Burns Havlat etc...but look at the players they have developed Pavelski, Couture, Vlasic, Marleau, Demers, even this Hertl kid, who looks like a player till he got hurt...I just see the people they bring up contribute and become the core....Outside of G and Coots who is on the list of "in house" guys on the Flyers? .......also if you wanted to blow up my point Dan Boyle is another really good example

That's the goal, but it's not a persona to get you there.

Like the Pens ride their star power, and LA/BOS dishearten you offensively while grinding you into the ground, and CHI/DET are going to win because they're never going to give you the puck, and NJ/NYR are all about contesting everything and out-working their way to wins.

The Flyers seem to have a finger or toe in all these philosophies, but when you consider everything, they're totally directionless in a sense.
- Tomahawk

But... is it they dont have the right system or the right players to play that system.

But... is it they dont have the right system or the right players to play that system.
- SchennBros

They don't have the right mix of players to play any system. This teams defense is built more for the Keith Primeau era.

Ok, but they gave up 5 and lost.

That's not the day a Pens fan comes into a Flyers forum a day after they get blown out and ask about Claude Giroux's post-Olympic pulse.
- johndewar

No but you have to look at context....Thornton was one of the most lop sided trades I have even seen...any team would do it..Heatley isnt there anymore, I admit they seem to have a pretty good trading relationship with Minny i.e Burns Havlat etc...but look at the players they have developed Pavelski, Couture, Vlasic, Marleau, Demers, even this Hertl kid, who looks like a player till he got hurt...I just see the people they bring up contribute and become the core....Outside of G and Coots who is on the list of "in house" guys on the Flyers? .......also if you wanted to blow up my point Dan Boyle is another really good example
- nonpoint22

Why dont Giroux, Couturier, Read, & Gustefsson count?

But... is it they dont have the right system or the right players to play that system.
- SchennBros

I don't think the GMs have ever listened to the coaches enough... it's like the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.

Why dont Giroux, Couturier, Read, & Gustefsson count?
- SchennBros

yes

I actually think Edmonton is extremely unstable...same players, but different coaches, different GMs and really no plan or philosophy. One is a playoff team and cup contender every year and one is a basement dweller that keeps telling there fans to be patient with all the young kids and there potential but they never addressed defense or goal tending , hmm that sounds familiar, How you can compare the Sharks and Oilers and say they are the same is kinda incredible
- nonpoint22

They're exact opposites, but the makeup and message is stable within each organization. Unfortunately for the Oilers, the stability message of "acquire the best young forwards and hope," is not a good plan.

Why dont Giroux, Couturier, Read, & Gustefsson count?
- SchennBros

If Read and Gus are part of our main core were really in trouble

They don't have the right mix of players to play any system. This teams defense is built more for the Keith Primeau era.
- PhillySportsGuy

You aren't going to fix the D at this trade deadline. Period. What you can do is deal Mez, ask Kimmo if he'd like to go to a contender or stay, and consider moving Downie and possibly Emery.
There is a SMALL chance that some of our youth goes, guys like Simmer or Read, but you'd have to impress the hell out of Holmgren to make that happen. I also expect him to listen to offers for Coburn but I doubt he jumps.
I expect Holmgren to make a bigger push for D after this season when he has a lot more cap room to play with.

That's the goal, but it's not a persona to get you there.

Like the Pens ride their star power, and LA/BOS dishearten you offensively while grinding you into the ground, and CHI/DET are going to win because they're never going to give you the puck, and NJ/NYR are all about contesting everything and out-working their way to wins.

The Flyers seem to have a finger or toe in all these philosophies, but when you consider everything, they're totally directionless in a sense.
- Tomahawk

I do think that's fair. We have so many good pieces, but not all of the pieces fit into one vision.

You aren't going to fix the D at this trade deadline. Period. What you can do is deal Mez, ask Kimmo if he'd like to go to a contender or stay, and consider moving Downie and possibly Emery.
There is a SMALL chance that some of our youth goes, guys like Simmer or Read, but you'd have to impress the hell out of Holmgren to make that happen. I also expect him to listen to offers for Coburn but I doubt he jumps.
I expect Holmgren to make a bigger push for D after this season when he has a lot more cap room to play with.
- FlyersGrace

I'd have a real problem if they deal Simmer. I would be flabbergasted.

They're exact opposites, but the makeup and message is stable within each organization. Unfortunately for the Oilers, the stability message of "acquire the best young forwards and hope," is not a good plan.
- jmatchett383

I think Edmonton is almost ready to explode into this league. They have had a lot of top draft picks that they have not had much choice but to BPA. So they end up with a lot of the same type of players, but they are all star quality, and developing into it. If they get Ekblad this draft, with Nurse coming up, and a few right moves, to get more vet grit, they will rival any team in this league.

You aren't going to fix the D at this trade deadline. Period. What you can do is deal Mez, ask Kimmo if he'd like to go to a contender or stay, and consider moving Downie and possibly Emery.
There is a SMALL chance that some of our youth goes, guys like Simmer or Read, but you'd have to impress the hell out of Holmgren to make that happen. I also expect him to listen to offers for Coburn but I doubt he jumps.
I expect Holmgren to make a bigger push for D after this season when he has a lot more cap room to play with.
- FlyersGrace

i couldn't agree more...doubt Timonen goes

I'd have a real problem if they deal Simmer. I would be flabbergasted.
- Just5

If we got a top pairing or high potential D for him? I think Homer will listen.

If Read and Gus are part of our main core were really in trouble
- nonpoint22

So a 20+-goal scorer who's one of the best PKers on the team and can man the point of the PP is a bad core player, but Jason Demers is?

You aren't going to fix the D at this trade deadline. Period. What you can do is deal Mez, ask Kimmo if he'd like to go to a contender or stay, and consider moving Downie and possibly Emery.
There is a SMALL chance that some of our youth goes, guys like Simmer or Read, but you'd have to impress the hell out of Holmgren to make that happen. I also expect him to listen to offers for Coburn but I doubt he jumps.
I expect Holmgren to make a bigger push for D after this season when he has a lot more cap room to play with.
- FlyersGrace

I think people are getting carried away with one loss. I know they looked terrible, but they shouldn't trade Kimmo unless someone really overpays.

This team is still in contention for the playoffs. You can't become sellers. Trading Kimmo is, in essence, giving up on the season. It sends the wrong message to the players.

Look to make smaller deals then wait for the offseason to see what happens. Asking prices on every player is astronomical right now.

You aren't going to fix the D at this trade deadline. Period. What you can do is deal Mez, ask Kimmo if he'd like to go to a contender or stay, and consider moving Downie and possibly Emery.
There is a SMALL chance that some of our youth goes, guys like Simmer or Read, but you'd have to impress the hell out of Holmgren to make that happen. I also expect him to listen to offers for Coburn but I doubt he jumps.
I expect Holmgren to make a bigger push for D after this season when he has a lot more cap room to play with.
- FlyersGrace

I'll say it again. Mez, Downie, Emery are more important to this team as playoff depth then the 3rd round picks you would get in return. You might get more for Timonen, but it would be at best a late first in a weak draft. I would rather stay put unless you are making a "hockey trade". You cant trade your depth when your in a playoff race.

I'd have a real problem if they deal Simmer. I would be flabbergasted.
- Just5

They won't and if they do the player (s) coming back would be really big names...it would be a straight hockey trade, but its not gonna happen

I think Edmonton is almost ready to explode into this league. They have had a lot of top draft picks that they have not had much choice but to BPA. So they end up with a lot of the same type of players, but they are all star quality, and developing into it. If they get Ekblad this draft, with Nurse coming up, and a few right moves, to get more vet grit, they will rival any team in this league.
- SchennBros

Sounds like what they said before the last 2 years: "Ready to explode."

So a 20+-goal scorer who's one of the best PKers on the team and can man the point of the PP is a bad core player, but Jason Demers is?
- jmatchett383

Whenever I see his name, I picture one of the guys from South Park saying it.

I'll say it again. Mez, Downie, Emery are more important to this team as playoff depth then the 3rd round picks you would get in return. You might get more for Timonen, but it would be at best a late first in a weak draft. I would rather stay put unless you are making a "hockey trade". You cant trade your depth when your in a playoff race.
- SchennBros

They will probably get more then 3 rounders for them...hell we gave up 2 2nds for Grossmann I believe and he was a pending UFA...I would make those moves because it gives you more flexibility to do something at the draft and your trading players who arent going to be here next year anyway. I would be impressed if the Flyers did this because it would show me they understand where this team is right now...not gonna hold my breath though

I think people are getting carried away with one loss. I know they looked terrible, but they shouldn't trade Kimmo unless someone really overpays.

This team is still in contention for the playoffs. You can't become sellers. Trading Kimmo is, in essence, giving up on the season. It sends the wrong message to the players.

Look to make smaller deals then wait for the offseason to see what happens. Asking prices on every player is astronomical right now.
- PhillySportsGuy

They'd trade Kimmo if he asked to be traded. There is a lot of respect there.
As for giving up on the season, I guess it depends on your priorities.
If your priority is to make the play-offs then you're right don't sell.
If your priority is to win the cup, then you sell.
Missing the play-offs last year hurt. Although I'm still miffed at the league for the lockout... No clue what Snider, Berube, or Holmgren are thinking right now...
Lots of trying to save jobs and cover butts...

Sounds like what they said before the last 2 years: "Ready to essplode."
- jmatchett383

FTFY

So a 20+-goal scorer who's one of the best PKers on the team and can man the point of the PP is a bad core player, but Jason Demers is?
- jmatchett383

If your ok with a guy who is a top end 50 point player as one of your main building blocks then go for it...yes I would like my top end guys to produce a little more, but thats just me I guess.....not saying he is a bad player just not "top end" build around him player..