- BulliesPhan87

...in mineral spirits?

not into your own
- stayinthefnnet

I have much to learn.

I once saw Sandy McCarthy score a goal. True story.
- jmatchett383

There's no way that's true.

There's no way that's true.
- ThirdEye

He did. Shot it with his beard, if I recall correctly.

I bet he uses the same cement that the defense kept their skates in last night.

/still
//very
///bitter
- johndewar

You aren't alone...
I didn't get to watch the end of the second or most of the third cuz the fiance refused to put it back on... I spent most of the night calming him down. I didn't miss much though.

It's the overall team speed/skill -- when you have average speed, you don't get many breaks.

I'm not saying the Flyers are slow slow slow. What I'm saying isn't all-encompassing, that every single player is horrible or whatever.

What I'm saying is that because they aren't the fastest team, they are going to lose some races to pucks. As a result, they're going to get hemmed in on the forecheck.

That's why they have a history of slow starts -- because at some point, an opposing team that's ready to play is gonna hem them in for a shift or two, or more, at the start of a game or the start of a period, or a segment of each. It sets a tone -- sometimes, they'll take a penalty. Sometimes, they will give up point-blank chances. Sometimes, they'll have to take a defensive zone faceoff.

All of that stuff is what makes them have slow starts, because for years and years and years, the Flyers are usually a more powerful team with size, instead of a faster team.
- AllInForFlyers

If the slow starts were due to the lack of team speed and skill, then it wouldn't vary. They wouldn't have been able to outplay a team like the Sharks and LA like they did before the break. They wouldn't be so up and down, and be able to outplay other good teams at times. There's no doubts that they have areas of the team that need to be improved. But the slow starts and games like last night, are not due to a lack of speed and skill. This is no different then the issue in the beginning of the Season when it was said that they can't score because they don't have enough offensive skill. That turned out to be just as untrue.

You aren't alone...
I didn't get to watch the end of the second or most of the third cuz the fiance refused to put it back on... I spent most of the night calming him down. I didn't miss much though.
- FlyersGrace

Yeah, I started playing with my baby when she woke up after the 2nd Torres goal. Much more fulfilling.

Sell! Sell! Sell! This team is not a contender. They aren't void of talent, and they play well at times, but the lack of consistency is what separates them from the big boys. That and the sloth like team speed.

Unfortunately I have zero faith in Holmgren making the right moves.
- PLindbergh31

How is selling anyone on this team outside of Timonen going to help? At best for Downie, and Meszaros your going to get 3rd round picks. Did you know that only 23% of players selected in the 3rd round will ever play more then 200 NHL games? And the majority of those guys are going to be 4th line, 3rd pairing guys. Very few players in this modern age of scounting will drop this far. It will be very, very, very rare to find the Zetterbergs these days.

Timonen might land you a very late first rounder, but again its a very shallow draft, so the fact that at best you might get 1 3rd line player trading Downie, Meszaros, and Timonen... that will be ready in 3-4 years... dont you think it would just be better to hold onto them and try and make a run.

IMO the only thing trades yhou should be making is to get better players for the future, not draft picks... Now if that means moving Timonen and maezaros to make Cap room, then that is fine. But a move for draft picks is just not a good idea.

How is selling anyone on this team outside of Timonen going to help? At best for Downie, and Meszaros your going to get 3rd round picks. Did you know that only 23% of players selected in the 3rd round will ever play more then 200 NHL games? And the majority of those guys are going to be 4th line, 3rd pairing guys. Very few players in this modern age of scounting will drop this far. It will be very, very, very rare to find the Zetterbergs these days.

Timonen might land you a very late first rounder, but again its a very shallow draft, so the fact that at best you might get 1 3rd line player trading Downie, Meszaros, and Timonen... that will be ready in 3-4 years... dont you think it would just be better to hold onto them and try and make a run.

IMO the only thing trades yhou should be making is to get better players for the future, not draft picks... Now if that means moving Timonen and maezaros to make Cap room, then that is fine. But a move for draft picks is just not a good idea.
- SchennBros

Trading anyone that shouldn't be viewed as the future core of this team and acquiring assets helps the team.

i've heard that reason too many times now. they just aren't good enough or something is seriously wrong in the lockerroom. by that i mean, they have tuned out the coach.
how is it possible nhl level defensemen cant cover a guy in front of their own net? skating has zero to do with that. competing? maybe. but they should do that in their sleep.
- Briere

Skating has every thing to do with it. The fasted player in the game is not very fast if he's not moving his feet. They didn't compete in the second period. There was no fight back. Simple as that.

How is selling anyone on this team outside of Timonen going to help? At best for Downie, and Meszaros your going to get 3rd round picks. Did you know that only 23% of players selected in the 3rd round will ever play more then 200 NHL games? And the majority of those guys are going to be 4th line, 3rd pairing guys. Very few players in this modern age of scounting will drop this far. It will be very, very, very rare to find the Zetterbergs these days.

Timonen might land you a very late first rounder, but again its a very shallow draft, so the fact that at best you might get 1 3rd line player trading Downie, Meszaros, and Timonen... that will be ready in 3-4 years... dont you think it would just be better to hold onto them and try and make a run.

IMO the only thing trades yhou should be making is to get better players for the future, not draft picks... Now if that means moving Timonen and maezaros to make Cap room, then that is fine. But a move for draft picks is just not a good idea.
- SchennBros

With the way things are this season, I don't see many "hockey trades" happening. In my opinion, a 3rd rounder for Downie is a good trade. Although he played relatively well last night (in the first), I feel that a guy like McGinn can do his job just as well. Mez may actually bring a second because offense=yes.

If the slow starts were due to the lack of team speed and skill, then it wouldn't vary. They wouldn't have been able to outplay a team like the Sharks and LA like they did before the break. They wouldn't be so up and down, and be able to outplay other good teams at times. There's no doubts that they have areas of the team that need to be improved. But the slow starts and games like last night, are not due to a lack of speed and skill. This is no different then the issue in the beginning of the Season when it was said that they can't score because they don't have enough offensive skill. That turned out to be just as untrue.
- MJL

If they aren't too slow, and they are skilled enough what is the issue?

Is it they aren't motivated to play a full game?
Not in good condition?
Poorly Coached?

There has to be a reason the same problem keeps cropping up. And some peoples view that it has to do with speed does seem legit to me.

If they aren't too slow, and they are skilled enough what is the issue?

Is it they aren't motivated to play a full game?
Not in good condition?
Poorly Coached?

There has to be a reason the same problem keeps cropping up. And some peoples view that it has to do with speed does seem legit to me.
- SchennBros

They're not a slow team. It's not like every player on this team is Jay Rosehill. But when they don't skate hard and the other team does, then anyone not named Pavel Bure is going to look slow, whcih is what's happening. Just look at them against the Sharks before the break and last night. Two completely different paces to how they skate. But sadly, I don't know why this is the case with this team where it's so night-and-day.

If they aren't too slow, and they are skilled enough what is the issue?

Is it they aren't motivated to play a full game?
Not in good condition?
Poorly Coached?

There has to be a reason the same problem keeps cropping up. And some peoples view that it has to do with speed does seem legit to me.
- SchennBros

I've been trying to figure out why this team is so Jeckyll and Hyde for a while now. Last nights' game had zero to do with the speed of the Flyers. That I know for sure.

Trading anyone that shouldn't be viewed as the future core of this team and acquiring assets helps the team.
- PLindbergh31

But at what cost? Is Downie more valuable to the team for a playoff run this year, or a 3rd round pick that will likely never see more then 3 games in the NHL 5 years from now? IMO I'll take Downie now. It would be a diffenent answer if they werent in playoff contention.

...in mineral spirits?
- tangent_man

I'm not allowed to play with fancy chemicals.

With the way things are this season, I don't see many "hockey trades" happening. In my opinion, a 3rd rounder for Downie is a good trade. Although he played relatively well last night (in the first), I feel that a guy like McGinn can do his job just as well. Mez may actually bring a second because offense=yes.
- jmatchett383

Right, but we are still in a playoff race. What if a week before the playoffs, we already traded Downie and then... Raffl gets hurt. Now you already have McGinn playing for Downie, and you need Rosehill to be on the team in the playoffs. It that worth it for a 3rd round player?

But at what cost? Is Downie more valuable to the team for a playoff run this year, or a 3rd round pick that will likely never see more then 3 games in the NHL 5 years from now? IMO I'll take Downie now. It would be a diffenent answer if they werent in playoff contention.
- SchennBros

I think that a guy like McGinn or even Holmstrom can provide what he's provided over the last 2 months. But, since he's Steve Downie the former first-rounder, that won't be explored.

Right, but we are still in a playoff race. What if a week before the playoffs, we already traded Downie and then... Raffl gets hurt. Now you already have McGinn playing for Downie, and you need Rosehill to be on the team in the playoffs. It that worth it for a 3rd round player?
- SchennBros

No, but if Raffl gets hurt, I'd expect one of our Black Aces to play instead of Rosehill. You can't be afraid to make a trade because someone might get hurt.

If Giroux gets hurt, would you be mad that Homer DIDN'T trade a boatload of assets to acquire a backup first line center in the off chance that Giroux might get hurt?

I'm not allowed to play with fancy chemicals.
- BulliesPhan87

I'm surprised they let you near salt.

I'm surprised they let you near salt.
- tangent_man

I'm surprised they let me on the internet.

They're not a slow team. It's not like every player on this team is Jay Rosehill. But when they don't skate hard and the other team does, then anyone not named Pavel Bure is going to look slow, whcih is what's happening. Just look at them against the Sharks before the break and last night. Two completely different paces to how they skate. But sadly, I don't know why this is the case with this team where it's so night-and-day.
- jmatchett383

Slow is a surface argument... yeah, ideally if everybody on the roster could skate like Andrew Cogliano, that would be great -- but there are no shortage of slow-ish players on a lot of current Cup-contenders, and some of them are key players:




Team play > Speed.

Problem with the Flyers, is their team game can fall apart at a moments notice, and the results can be catastrophic.

(btw: Rosehill is a pretty decent skater)

Slow is a surface argument... yeah, ideally if everybody on the roster could skate like Andrew Cogliano, that would be great -- but there are no shortage of slow-ish players on a lot of current Cup-contenders, and some of them are key players:




Team play > Speed.

Problem with the Flyers, is their team game can fall apart at a moments notice, and the results can be catastrophic.

(btw: Rosehill is a pretty decent skater)
- Tomahawk

Agreed...I think?

And fine, replace Rosehill with Shelley or Cote.

But at what cost? Is Downie more valuable to the team for a playoff run this year, or a 3rd round pick that will likely never see more then 3 games in the NHL 5 years from now? IMO I'll take Downie now. It would be a diffenent answer if they werent in playoff contention.
- SchennBros

Downie hasn't played well. Whether it be due to injuries or what have you. He's scored 2 goals in 40 games played for the Flyers since the trade. This is the worst stretch of his career. He's a UFA after the season, if I'm the Flyers I do not want to give him a contract. Since this team isn't a legit contender, trade him for an asset.

Skating has every thing to do with it. The fasted player in the game is not very fast if he's not moving his feet. They didn't compete in the second period. There was no fight back. Simple as that.
- MJL

i dont dispute that.
what i referred to was coburn (and i actually like the guy) standing next to pavelski and just watching him score. no coverage at all. he was two feet away from him. that has zero to do with skating.