I feel your pain, usernames are not subject to change.
- BulliesPhan87

Yea... I would want to change "87" if I were you too. lol

OK. Say this is true -- and there's no real reason to dispute any of this.

My question is this: Can we win with what we think these players will do, if these are their actual ceilings, no "fan inflation" of values?

Because right there, you kinda see, well...the mix we already have.
- AllInForFlyers

Its so hard to say.
Hagg is really hard to predict, he could turn out to anything from Karl Dykhuis to Eric Desjardins, there's just no way to be sure. Same with Morin, he could be a slower, meaner Coburn or the next Chara. Only time will tell.

Chet Pickard LOL
I'm pretty sure I saw both him and Oulette on the same milk carton!
- BiggE

Yep. He really never developed much at all. When Giroux was drafted, it was because their first two choices-Trevor Lewis and Bobby Sanguinetti-were off the board.

Yea... I would want to change "87" if I were you too. lol
- SchennBros

Well, at the very least it makes for some good jokes or something. I think I'm more embarrassed by the "Phan" part. Like, what am I, 14?

Timonen was absolutely elite. Killed penalties, QB'd the pp and was the top guy on the top pair both here and for his last couple years in Nashville.
- BiggE

ah. To me, that just means he was a Number 1 guy. Too me Elite mean perrenial all-star, and Franchise is top 5 in league, HOFer.

Did the Flyers really give up all that much in hindsight to get Pronger?

Lupul, Sbisa, a 2009 first round pick that became John Moore, and 2010 first round pick that became Emerson Etem. Plus some conditional picks.
- MBFlyerfan

Yeah, they did, and Anaheim will be reaping the benefits of that trade for years to come.

It's depressing when I think about who the Flyers, with their late-round prowess, could have turned up with those picks.... O'Reilly, Faulk, Lehner?

OK. Say this is true -- and there's no real reason to dispute any of this.

My question is this: Can we win with what we think these players will do, if these are their actual ceilings, no "fan inflation" of values?

Because right there, you kinda see, well...the mix we already have.
- AllInForFlyers

Alt - Morin
Hagg - Ghostisbehere
Lauridsen - mystery player

It's not bad. Definitely not worse than the 2012 Devils (if all goes according to plan).

Alt looked fantastic in the preseason games I saw. I was trying to figure out who he was (no roster card) because he really stoof out.

Morin is the ultimate x factor. I think his low ceiling is a #4 shutdown defenseman, a realistic top pair/good #3 guy.

Hagg, if he can work his consistency issues out, is a top-4 defenseman.

Ghost reminds me of a scrappier Jack Johnson, but with the added advantage of knowing how to play defense.

Lauridsen is a big physical stay-at-home bottom-pair defender.

- BulliesPhan87

lol is that Kim Johnson. I haven't thought about that guy in ages! Will never forget that end to end rush he had against NYR.

How much of that has to do with the fact that he's basically a man amongst boys? I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think right now, you could probably get an equally talented young dman that is right where Laughton is in his development: ready for NHL ice time next season or big minutes in the AHL/first guy called up.
- mochoson

He's only 19.

ah. To me, that just means he was a Number 1 guy. Too me Elite mean perrenial all-star, and Franchise is top 5 in league, HOFer.
- SchennBros

Well a 1000+ games, 500+ points and a 4 time all star sounds pretty elite to me, but to each his own I guess.

deal
- jmatchett383

haha i see what you did there

Alt - Morin
Hagg - Ghostisbehere
Lauridsen - mystery player

It's not bad. Definitely not worse than the 2012 Devils (if all goes according to plan).

Alt looked fantastic in the preseason games I saw. I was trying to figure out who he was (no roster card) because he really stoof out.

Morin is the ultimate x factor. I think his low ceiling is a #4 shutdown defenseman, a realistic top pair/good #3 guy.

Hagg, if he can work his consistency issues out, is a top-4 defenseman.

Ghost reminds me of a scrappier Jack Johnson, but with the added advantage of knowing how to play defense.

Lauridsen is a big physical stay-at-home bottom-pair defender.
- jmatchett383

OK. So it all hinges on Morin, then...come on, kid! You can do this!

Yeah, they did, and Anaheim will be reaping the benefits of that trade for years to come.

It's depressing when I think about who the Flyers, with their late-round prowess, could have turned up with those picks.... O'Reilly, Faulk, Lehner?
- Tomahawk

Speaking of "for years to come"...did you know that Colorado is still using a player (an Olympian) who was acquired using only assets (a few times over) from the Eric Lindros trade?

Paul Stastny was acquired from about 3 trees where, if you trace them backwards, were directly a part of the Lindros trade (i.e. the didn't have to include other assets to get the assets that led to Stastny).

news flash .....Pronger hasn't played in TWO years, time too get on with it.....its not ignored, but the fact remains there D is a below average, overpriced with the most of the talent coming from guys who are very late in their career. Im not sure who would be out there that the Flyers could trade for....Im dont pretend to be in the know ....but that IS the GMs job to fix the problem and in this NHL, you have too give something up to get something.
You are very right when you talk about the forwards being responsable to help the D....but I totally disagree that their D is not the glaring weakness even with back checking forwards....
- landros 2

I don't care how many years it has been. The Flyers have 7 capable NHL defenseman on the roster. They are lacking a top defenseman, or a better mix of defenseman. But it doesn't happen overnight. When will Detroit replace Nik Lidstrom?
And I agreed in my original replay that the Flyers have to improve the defense. But until then, certain things have to happen with the team aspect.

haha i see what you did there
- stayinthefnnet

So no Letang and now no Martin for a while. Do the Pens have the cap space and/or assets to address this?

Well a 1000+ games, 500+ points and a 4 time all star sounds pretty elite to me, but to each his own I guess.
- BiggE

I guess I stand corrected. Excuse my while I eat my humble pie.

Speaking of "for years to come"...did you know that Colorado is still using a player (an Olympian) who was acquired using only assets (a few times over) from the Eric Lindros trade?

Paul Stastny was acquired from about 3 trees where, if you trace them backwards, were directly a part of the Lindros trade (i.e. the didn't have to include other assets to get the assets that led to Stastny).
- jmatchett383

I think Hejduk was part of that too.

I don't care how many years it has been. The Flyers have 7 capable NHL defenseman on the roster. They are lacking a top defenseman, or a better mix of defenseman. But it doesn't happen overnight. When will Detroit replace Nik Lidstrom?
And I agreed in my original replay that the Flyers have to improve the defense. But until then, certain things have to happen with the team aspect.
- MJL

perhaps never, 1st ballot hall of famers don't come around often.

OK. So it all hinges on Morin, then...come on, kid! You can do this!

- AllInForFlyers

No. There's a chance that Hagg would be the next OEL or that Ghost can be the next Erik Karlsson. Not a GOOD chance. But a chance.

Morin is the biggest wild card of the bunch (*coughPulock has 50+ points this yearcough*). But really, we either need to have one of these guys becomes the gam changing defender, or we need a team that plays a good enough defense where they just have to be very good players who do their roles well.

I think Hejduk was part of that too.
- PhillySportsGuy

Is he still around somewhere?

Speaking of "for years to come"...did you know that Colorado is still using a player (an Olympian) who was acquired using only assets (a few times over) from the Eric Lindros trade?

Paul Stastny was acquired from about 3 trees where, if you trace them backwards, were directly a part of the Lindros trade (i.e. the didn't have to include other assets to get the assets that led to Stastny).
- jmatchett383

Anytime you trade 6 players and two high draft choices for one guy, the "trade tree" will have a lot of branches that stretch out over many years.

But it is stunning that a trade made 22 years ago still impacts a team today

Nailed it. I'd go one step further and bring Kimmo into the risk management angle... Hitching the entire team's fortunes to two mid-30's D was just asking for trouble. Yes, they were unlucky with Prongers fluke injury, but consider how lucky they've been that Kimmo's been able to avoid missing many games. The hockey gods give and they take, but that doesn't mean Homer's off the hook for betting against the odds in the Pronger deal.
- Tomahawk

I disagree that Holmgren bet against the odds in the Pronger deal. The trade ws a no brainer. One I would make over and over again.

Speaking of "for years to come"...did you know that Colorado is still using a player (an Olympian) who was acquired using only assets (a few times over) from the Eric Lindros trade?

Paul Stastny was acquired from about 3 trees where, if you trace them backwards, were directly a part of the Lindros trade (i.e. the didn't have to include other assets to get the assets that led to Stastny).
- jmatchett383

Yeah, the Lindros trade is the gift that keeps on giving:

perhaps never, 1st ballot hall of famers don't come around often.
- BiggE

At least Kronwall is a solid top pairing guy.

So no Letang and now no Martin for a while. Do the Pens have the cap space and/or assets to address this?
- BiggE

Yes, actually. They have a slew of good young defensemen that can step in and help, and they can utilize Letang's money on LTIR