Three straight lockouts... IMO, it's almost all on the owners.

They hold the purse strings, they set the market place, they hire the idiot GMs, and they're the ones who eagerly dump good money after bad while the CBA is in effect, only to cry poor immediately on its expiration.

If I'm a hockey player, and somebody is willing to give preemptively give me $51M ahead of a buyers' market at my position, then turn around and dump $23M in my lap just to make me go away, I'm going to take it.

But somebody has to actually be willing to do that, first.
- Tomahawk

I actually think the owners, after their first flurry of unreasonable demands, were less at fault than the players. Yes, they stupidly spent money and then cried poor, but that was the point of the lockout: to make it so they couldn't spend more money on players than they could bring in.

Once the players hired Fehr, a long lockout was inevitable. Remember that they actually had it resolved prior the Christmas when Fehr was excused from negotiations, only for him to reject the resolution at the last minute? Neither side did the right thing, but I actually felt the owners had a more legit reason to fight (although they screwed themselves in the prior CBA by not agreeing to a fixed cap).

I know. It should be.

Latvia v. Sweden
Slovenia v. USA
Czech Republic v. Canada
Russia v. Finland
- PhillySportsGuy

The United States played Slovenia already. Who wants to see that again?

The United States played Slovenia already. Who wants to see that again?
- PLindbergh31

Cutters and drunks

I actually think the owners, after their first flurry of unreasonable demands, were less at fault than the players. Yes, they stupidly spent money and then cried poor, but that was the point of the lockout: to make it so they couldn't spend more money on players than they could bring in.

Once the players hired Fehr, a long lockout was inevitable. Remember that they actually had it resolved prior the Christmas when Fehr was excused from negotiations, only for him to reject the resolution at the last minute? Neither side did the right thing, but I actually felt the owners had a more legit reason to fight (although they screwed themselves in the prior CBA by not agreeing to a fixed cap).
- jmatchett383

You know that is BS, right? There's large chunks of revenue -- for example, expansion fees-- that are not even accounted for in the shared pot. And have you ever heard of an owner personally ruined as a result of owning an NHL team? Even if they lose money, it's a fantastic tax write-off... and if worse comes to worst, you file bankruptcy and wipe your hands of it.

Meanwhile, the players are trying to take care of their families.

I actually think the owners, after their first flurry of unreasonable demands, were less at fault than the players. Yes, they stupidly spent money and then cried poor, but that was the point of the lockout: to make it so they couldn't spend more money on players than they could bring in.

Once the players hired Fehr, a long lockout was inevitable. Remember that they actually had it resolved prior the Christmas when Fehr was excused from negotiations, only for him to reject the resolution at the last minute? Neither side did the right thing, but I actually felt the owners had a more legit reason to fight (although they screwed themselves in the prior CBA by not agreeing to a fixed cap).
- jmatchett383

I don't want to get into a long lockout discussion. But the latter is false. Fehr did not hold any power to reject anything. Only the players could accept or reject a proposal.

You know that is BS, right? There's large chunks of revenue -- for example, expansion fees-- that are not even accounted for in the shared pot. And have you ever heard of an owner personally ruined as a result of owning an NHL team? Even if they lose money, it's a fantastic tax write-off... and if worse comes to worst, you file bankruptcy and wipe your hands of it.

Meanwhile, the players are trying to take care of their families.
- Tomahawk

You know that is BS, right? There's large chunks of revenue -- for example, expansion fees-- that are not even accounted for in the shared pot. And have you ever heard of an owner personally ruined as a result of owning an NHL team? Even if they lose money, it's a fantastic tax write-off... and if worse comes to worst, you file bankruptcy and wipe your hands of it.

Meanwhile, the players are trying to take care of their families.
- Tomahawk

Most owners have their hands in so many pots that they CAN'T be ruined by any failing investment, so no, no owner (today) will be ruined as a result of owning an NHL team. My point was a direct relation of the HRR accounted for and money spent on its players (Minnesota, as the primary example, lost money on a ledger, but was able to sign Parise and Suter because there were other sources od revenue). I'm sorry, I should have clarified.

Also, don't give the "trying to take care of their families." All NHL players (not all AHL players) make more in 1 season that I'll make in the next 5 years (taxes would actually make it 3-4 years) and I can take care of my family just fine. Plus, all of their food, lodging, and travel on the road is paid for by the team. No athlete playing at the highest North American level can ever cry poor to me.

I don't want to get into a long lockout discussion. But the latter is false. Fehr did not hold any power to reject anything. Only the players could accept or reject a proposal.
- MJL

Yes, but they followed his every word like sheep. He had no official power, but they treated his word like gospel.

Yes, but they followed his every word like sheep. He had no official power, but they treated his word like gospel.
- jmatchett383

He definitely had influence. And in reference to that players only and owners meeting. The players stated before the meeting took place, that no deal would be made there. It was the Owners who tried to play the popularity game there by saying Fehr nixed the deal. The entire ploy was the Owners trying to get the players to ditch Fehr, so the Owners could push them around. The entire process from both sides was nonsensical.

Also, don't give the "trying to take care of their families." All NHL players (not all AHL players) make more in 1 season that I'll make in the next 5 years (taxes would actually make it 3-4 years) and I can take care of my family just fine. Plus, all of their food, lodging, and travel on the road is paid for by the team. No athlete playing at the highest North American level can ever cry poor to me.
- jmatchett383

Their window to grab that hockey $ is pretty short -- at least compared to the 40+ years for a white collar worker. And let's not forget that NHL players represent the cream of the crop in their profession... if you were in the top 0.1% of your chosen job, I'd hope your employer would compensate you accordingly in terms of salary and benefits. And the scale is completely different -- unless the job that you do directly pulls in millions/billions in earnings for your company.

And nobody's saying they're poor... only that the owners hold all the strings, and they've initiated the past three work stoppages.

You know that is BS, right? There's large chunks of revenue -- for example, expansion fees-- that are not even accounted for in the shared pot. And have you ever heard of an owner personally ruined as a result of owning an NHL team? Even if they lose money, it's a fantastic tax write-off... and if worse comes to worst, you file bankruptcy and wipe your hands of it.

Meanwhile, the players are trying to take care of their families.
- Tomahawk

Really? They weren't able to do that already?

Really? They weren't able to do that already?


- funmaster18

If only they had those magic tax write offs that recoup all their losses.

If only they had those magic tax write offs that recoup all their losses.
- BulliesPhan87

Don't we all!

hey all. hope everything is well with everyone

hey all. hope everything is well with everyone
- stayinthefnnet

I'm cool, hope you are too. I seriously need the NHL back.

I'm cool, hope you are too. I seriously need the NHL back.
- MJL

gonna be a murderous week as far as obligations go, so in that sense no nhl probably helps. although i seem to just find other hockey related means to procrastinate anyway. but yeah, im usually huge into the olympics, but with the tremendously trap dependent style teams are playing, the games have just quite frankly been boring

gonna be a murderous week as far as obligations go, so in that sense no nhl probably helps. although i seem to just find other hockey related means to procrastinate anyway. but yeah, im usually huge into the olympics, but with the tremendously trap dependent style teams are playing, the games have just quite frankly been boring
- stayinthefnnet

The lack of parity in the early goings makes it difficult to stay too attentive. That shouldn't be so much of an issue now that the medal rounds are underway.

The lack of parity in the early goings makes it difficult to stay too attentive. That shouldn't be so much of an issue now that the medal rounds are underway.
- BulliesPhan87

The lack of primetime games hurts, too. I don't care enough to miss work or wake up at 3 am, so I'm usually watching with one eye, knowing the result or ignoring it altogether.

The lack of parity in the early goings makes it difficult to stay too attentive. That shouldn't be so much of an issue now that the medal rounds are underway.
- BulliesPhan87

i can even get down with an old fashioned beatdown if its exciting hockey to watch. but watching say canada win 3 0 off of a couple shots from the point against a severe neutral zone trap against a team simply playing not to lose is no fun. the other team puts forth like maybe 2 scoring chances a period of their own in an effort to limit the better teams

I actually think the owners, after their first flurry of unreasonable demands, were less at fault than the players. Yes, they stupidly spent money and then cried poor, but that was the point of the lockout: to make it so they couldn't spend more money on players than they could bring in.

Once the players hired Fehr, a long lockout was inevitable. Remember that they actually had it resolved prior the Christmas when Fehr was excused from negotiations, only for him to reject the resolution at the last minute? Neither side did the right thing, but I actually felt the owners had a more legit reason to fight (although they screwed themselves in the prior CBA by not agreeing to a fixed cap).
- jmatchett383

Replace "lockout" with the word "strike". Now everyone on this board supports it, right?

My problem with the lockouts was one of the main "objectives" was to ensure broke ass teams could compete with rich teams. So they forced a salary cap on the league under the guise of "fairness". Now teams who still refuse to spend money (because they don't have any) take on players who have a high cap hit but have already been paid a majority of their contract.

It's funny that we think that the league and the players will ever be able to find a perfect solution. The only perfect solution is the one we had before all of this. The owners made new rules with regards to salary, but had already found a way around those new rules before they were even fully implemented.

Each lock out has done more to hurt the actual game than to help it. I for one liked hockey a hell of a lot more when some rube didn't understand the game at all and chose not to watch. Now we have a ton of fair weather fans...

Meh.. rant over

Their window to grab that hockey $ is pretty short -- at least compared to the 40+ years for a white collar worker. And let's not forget that NHL players represent the cream of the crop in their profession... if you were in the top 0.1% of your chosen job, I'd hope your employer would compensate you accordingly in terms of salary and benefits. And the scale is completely different -- unless the job that you do directly pulls in millions/billions in earnings for your company.

And nobody's saying they're poor... only that the owners hold all the strings, and they've initiated the past three work stoppages.
- Tomahawk

Isn't that what owners should be holding?

You know that is BS, right? There's large chunks of revenue -- for example, expansion fees-- that are not even accounted for in the shared pot. And have you ever heard of an owner personally ruined as a result of owning an NHL team? Even if they lose money, it's a fantastic tax write-off... and if worse comes to worst, you file bankruptcy and wipe your hands of it.

Meanwhile, the players are trying to take care of their families.
- Tomahawk

Which makes a ton of a sense. INCOME tax is based on how much money you brought IN within a time frame. If you lost money, you better get to write it off.

I despise the way your liberal brain looks at this stuff.

Replace "lockout" with the word "strike". Now everyone on this board supports it, right?

My problem with the lockouts was one of the main "objectives" was to ensure broke ass teams could compete with rich teams. So they forced a salary cap on the league under the guise of "fairness". Now teams who still refuse to spend money (because they don't have any) take on players who have a high cap hit but have already been paid a majority of their contract.

It's funny that we think that the league and the players will ever be able to find a perfect solution. The only perfect solution is the one we had before all of this. The owners made new rules with regards to salary, but had already found a way around those new rules before they were even fully implemented.

Each lock out has done more to hurt the actual game than to help it. I for one liked hockey a hell of a lot more when some rube didn't understand the game at all and chose not to watch. Now we have a ton of fair weather fans...

Meh.. rant over
- Flyersgod

I agree with you. I think there are too many rules. The NBA has the same problem. They keep trying alter the rules to fix the game. The best thing these leagues can do is allow more of a free market.

Just saw the phantoms fight from sunday on bills retweet. Holy poop did Portland get annihilated.

5 suspensions handed out to Adirondack players including 1 game to mcginn.


I wish the Olympics would end so life with the flyers can begin again.
- moylander

Got a link?

Got a link?
- MBFlyerfan

Full version.