Mactavish has been GM for less than a year.

He's made some excellent moves.
- Iggysbff

Has his influence truly left Edmonton from his coaching days though. I mean his associate coaches are still there.

Lowe and Mactavish have decimated the Oilers in the run since 06. Even with MacT leaving for 4 years or however long his influence on the Oilers room and it's current veteran players was and is still a factor.

Which is why I included Lowe in there
- Deadstar

Judging by timelines of each rebuild, Lowebelini maps onto Craig Patrick. Both didn't improve the team much at all.

Shero comes in the summer after their final lottery pick that yields Jordan Staal (year 5 after their first lottery finish). By that timeline, MacTavish actually came in a year earlier, relatively speaking.

I don't know if the next 7 years of MacT will go similarly to the past 7 years of Ray Shero, but I do know a) They both came in with a similar sort of bluster and made similar first moves (Shero signs Recchi, Ruutu and Eaton, MacT acquires Perron and signs Gordon and Ference). and b) It's tough to compare MacT's 7 months to Shero's 7 years.

Has his influence truly left Edmonton from his coaching days though. I mean his associate coaches are still there.

Lowe and Mactavish have decimated the Oilers in the run since 06. Even with MacT leaving for 4 years or however long his influence on the Oilers room and it's current veteran players was and is still a factor.
- Ben37

When MacT took over, there were 4* players remaining from when he coached: Smid, Hemsky, Horcoff and Gagner.

- He traded Horcoff and asked Hemmer if he wanted out in the summer.
- He shopped Smid at the draft as a piece in a potential Coburn deal, and then traded him in the fall.
- Gagner is currently on the block.
- Hemmer will likely be gone this summer, as could possibly Ryan Smyth.

If there's a prevailing ethos in MacT's short tenure as GM, it's that what was in the past, can't be going forward. If you want to blame continuity, blame Lowe, not ghosts of MacTavish.


*Smyth was gone under MacT's tenure, and returned while he was gone.

Judging by timelines of each rebuild, Lowebelini maps onto Craig Patrick. Both didn't improve the team much at all.

Shero comes in the summer after their final lottery pick that yields Jordan Staal (year 5 after their first lottery finish). By that timeline, MacTavish actually came in a year earlier, relatively speaking.

I don't know if the next 7 years of MacT will go similarly to the past 7 years of Ray Shero, but I do know a) They both came in with a similar sort of bluster and made similar first moves (Shero signs Recchi, Ruutu and Eaton, MacT acquires Perron and signs Gordon and Ference). and b) It's tough to compare MacT's 7 months to Shero's 7 years.
- Morris

As I said its tough to compare. I don't think penguins fans really feel like the rebuild started until right before 2005. They were basically in non compete mode from (arguably earlier than) 2002-2005 due to financial restrictions.

Ryan Wilson: What IS Wrong With Sidney Crosby?
What is wrong with Sidney Crosby?
- Ryan_Wilson

Nothing really...He will come out in score the OT goal to win in the semis or the finals probably...It would be nice if he was 1st in points right now but it dose not really matter... he will come and play when it dose matter...trust me...

nothing is wrong, i think he clicked well with marty, they worked well together ..it just gives the media something to talk about i guess...whats wrong with sidney crosby? what kind of question is that

Drafting at the top of the draft is easy. Simply take who every scouting service and rankings have as the number one player. Usually the drafts go in the exact order of pre draft rankings. It is not the GM's fault who the players are in a particular draft. I am sure if someone drafted Toews over Eric Johnson, they would have been ripped apart.

Next year who ever drafts McDavid will be the smartest GM in the league.
- rmiethaner

I disagree...Say the top 2 pick were center man in pre ranking...It really would not make sense for the Leafs to take them both...The need maybe a D man or a winger or something else so then they could take would was 3rd in pre rankings...A big part of drafting is who fits were...it would not make sense to draft a top D man every year...

Has his influence truly left Edmonton from his coaching days though. I mean his associate coaches are still there.

Lowe and Mactavish have decimated the Oilers in the run since 06. Even with MacT leaving for 4 years or however long his influence on the Oilers room and it's current veteran players was and is still a factor.
- Ben37

i don't agree at all.

mact was a very solid coach. he was given a mediocre roster pretty much every year he was behind the bench and remained competitive.
the one year he was actually bolstered with a lineup that some could consider above average, he went to game 7 of the finals outcoaching babcock and Wilson along the way. (both had vastly superior teams on paper)

in the end, the message got stale and he moved on, it happens all the time.

thus far as gm, he's made multiple positive moves

As I said its tough to compare. I don't think penguins fans really feel like the rebuild started until right before 2005. They were basically in non compete mode from (arguably earlier than) 2002-2005 due to financial restrictions.
- Deadstar

I don't mean this to come off as combatative; but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....

one can call it whatever word they want, but multiple lottery picks in a row and forming the nucleus of a bottom feeder into and elite team by way of draft is in no way a different road.

the were able to add some pieces of course, the same as any team would have to do. but I don't think that edm isn't now attempting to do the same (but even more difficult considering the desirability of signing in edm beyond just being a losing team)

I don't mean this to come off as combatative; but if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....

one can call it whatever word they want, but multiple lottery picks in a row and forming the nucleus of a bottom feeder into and elite team by way of draft is in no way a different road.

the were able to add some pieces of course, the same as any team would have to do. but I don't think that edm isn't now attempting to do the same (but even more difficult considering the desirability of signing in edm beyond just being a losing team)
- hugefemale dog77

Edmonton isn't bad because of Taylor Hall or RNH. They are bad because of everything around them. You can't have 19-22 year olds be the guys you rely on.

Crosby had a 100 point season ealry in his career and Pitt was still awful that year.

The argument that the Oilers 1st overall picks aren't superstars therefore they suck is wrong and a dumb stance to take. Edmonton will turn the corner eventually just like Colorado did. Part of it is coaching, part of it is personnel.

Perron was a steal, Scrivens might end up being one too. You guys indeed have a bright future

Its not much worse than Pitt drafting 5th, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd from 2002-2006. And thats with them getting Crosby and Malkin in the 2nd and 3rd year.

edit: realistically pitts year period is worse than Edmontons current stint.
- Mentalorgasm5

Lol you need to understand that the Pens had veterans in their lineup when Crosby and Malkin first joined long.

Edmonton isn't bad because of Taylor Hall or RNH. They are bad because of everything around them. You can't have 19-22 year olds be the guys you rely on.

Crosby had a 100 point season ealry in his career and Pitt was still awful that year.

The argument that the Oilers 1st overall picks aren't superstars therefore they suck is wrong and a dumb stance to take. Edmonton will turn the corner eventually just like Colorado did. Part of it is coaching, part of it is personnel.

Perron was a steal, Scrivens might end up being one too. You guys indeed have a bright future
- sbroads24

great post.
I think we're aways away yet, and some serious moves need to be made to fill our many deficiencies....but this x1000

the crazy part is that very few seem to realize this.
it mystifies me.

something gets mentioned on HB or wherever, empty head A likes the sound of it, and copies and pastes it. pretty soon all the brain deads spout it as fact

Lol you need to understand that the Pens had veterans in their lineup when Crosby and Malkin first joined long.
- PensMalkin71

so does this make it EVEN worse?? or better somehow?

and you still had another lottery pick upcoming after that...

so does this make it EVEN worse?? or better somehow?

and you still had another lottery pick upcoming after that...
- hugefemale dog77

I'm not trying to shoot you down I'm just saying Pens had veteran leadership in place when the stars arrived. Edmonton doesn't have that. They have guys who are in their early 20's who are relied on as the "go to" players with not much veteran leadership on their team. That's a huge problem I see.

I'm not trying to shoot you down I'm just saying Pens had veteran leadership in place when the stars arrived. Edmonton doesn't have that. They have guys who are in their early 20's who are relied on as the "go to" players with not much veteran leadership on their team. That's a huge problem I see.
- PensMalkin71

I'm not that interested in this Pittsburgh vs. Edm debate, however looking back it seems the pens did a good job of signing free agents (Gonchar, Cooke) and making trades (kunitz, Dupius (throw in the Hossa deal lol))to play along with there young stars... This with drafting the year crosby was available vs hall and the veteran leadership of people like Scuderi and Orpik were the difference. Edm seems like a work in progress, a few good trades and another top three pick coming this summer could make this conversation look very different.
Just curious for the edm fans... Is Scriven's the guy moving forward? Still reading rumors on other goaltenders.

I'm not trying to shoot you down I'm just saying Pens had veteran leadership in place when the stars arrived. Edmonton doesn't have that. They have guys who are in their early 20's who are relied on as the "go to" players with not much veteran leadership on their team. That's a huge problem I see.
- PensMalkin71

agreed

I'm not that interested in this Pittsburgh vs. Edm debate, however looking back it seems the pens did a good job of signing free agents (Gonchar, Cooke) and making trades (kunitz, Dupius (throw in the Hossa deal lol))to play along with there young stars... This with drafting the year crosby was available vs hall and the veteran leadership of people like Scuderi and Orpik were the difference. Edm seems like a work in progress, a few good trades and another top three pick coming this summer could make this conversation look very different.
- Brianandr1

I agree, the names you mentioned is why the Pens had success much faster. Edm doesn't have those guys right now, they have a few, but not enough.

I'm not that interested in this Pittsburgh vs. Edm debate, however looking back it seems the pens did a good job of signing free agents (Gonchar, Cooke) and making trades (kunitz, Dupius (throw in the Hossa deal lol))to play along with there young stars... This with drafting the year crosby was available vs hall and the veteran leadership of people like Scuderi and Orpik were the difference. Edm seems like a work in progress, a few good trades and another top three pick coming this summer could make this conversation look very different.
- Brianandr1

I'm not interested in the debate either, in part because I've noticed fans, bloggers and media re-arrange the dates (for both sides) to suit their argument.

I'm sure you guys have heard something equally ridiculous so I'm only speaking from my experience, but I once had someone try to sell me that Edmonton has been rebuilding since they traded Pronger, but Pittsburgh's rebuild only really started with Crosby.

I totally agree that veteran leadership is needed and I see the moves MacT made and the ones he tried to make and feel like that's starting to come.

I'm not interested in the debate either, in part because I've noticed fans, bloggers and media re-arrange the dates (for both sides) to suit their argument.

I'm sure you guys have heard something equally ridiculous so I'm only speaking from my experience, but I once had someone try to sell me that Edmonton has been rebuilding since they traded Pronger, but Pittsburgh's rebuild only really started with Crosby.

I totally agree that veteran leadership is needed and I see the moves MacT made and the ones he tried to make and feel like that's starting to come.
- Morris

All this being said does Shero really get credit for Dupius (hossa trade) and Niskenen (Neal trade) who were basically throw in's in those respective deals?? Seems like there is a bit of luck involved here... Nisk was unwanted in Dallas, who basically forced Shero to take him/ Dupius bounced around on Atl and the Rangers.

All this being said does Shero really get credit for Dupius (hossa trade) and Niskenen (Neal trade) who were basically throw in's in those respective deals?? Seems like there is a bit of luck involved here...
- Brianandr1

Or maybe just great pro scouting at work. I do think Shero did put a fast-forward on the rebuild that really did turn the team around.

Ryan Wilson: What IS Wrong With Sidney Crosby?
What is wrong with Sidney Crosby?
- Ryan_Wilson

9 different linemates for his last 9 games n the Olympics


Ruff must have a strong voice in the coaching decision

Funny that you bash the Kunitz selection and then list off things Canada needs to do that describe the exact things Kunitz excels at.
- Ryan_Wilson

to the level of a decent, not spectacular, NHLer. Nowhere near the level of a Team Canada player.

to the level of a decent, not spectacular, NHLer. Nowhere near the level of a Team Canada player.
- prock

What does this mean???? Is this not just pure arrogance and elitism?

What does this mean???? Is this not just pure arrogance and elitism?
- Brianandr1

It means that yes, he does the things mentioned well. Nowhere near the best in the world. I thought it was pretty straightforward. What part didn't you understand?

What does this mean???? Is this not just pure arrogance and elitism?
- Brianandr1

I think he just meant that he doesn't believe kunitz belonged on the toughest roster to make in world hockey.
far from a slight