My guess is that since the 3rd line has proved equally ineffective, then they (likely Lewis) earns a demotion to the 4th and frees up a top 9 spot for Vey or trade. I wouldn't mind seeing Stoll move down, but that cap hit on the 4th will kill us.

Less a reflection on Fraser, and more on the 3rd line getting absolutely nothing done. Hence earning 4th line spots, no?
- cryptical77

You're assuming that the 3rd line and the 4th line perform the same role, and that the 3rd line is simply better at it, and I would disagree with that. A player that is great on the 4th line might not fit in well on the 3rd line, whereas a great 3rd line player might be terrible on the 4th line. I think Lewis and Stoll are both examples of players that fit in well on the 3rd line, that don't play the intense, hard-nosed game that Clifford, Fraser, and Nolan bring.

Fraser brought grit, the ability to hit people and get under the skin of our opponents..
- DesertKing

This. Vey and Lewis do not bring this to the team.

No one said Fraser was "bad in the locker room".

No one tried to take away either one of his cups.

Never said he was not gritty or a slight thorn in the side of opposition (barely at times).

BUT, he provides ZERO offensive threat. and calling him a "skill" player has got to be the funniest thing I have ever read in a comment on this blog!



Aside from him taking penalties and causing goals against you would never notice him out there, we already have trevor lewis and really don't need another minute chewing ineffective forward out there. we have too many of them right now, so I wish him well, won't miss him, and hope we are posturing to fix our lackluster offense.

Speaking of ineffective minute chewing forwards... any more rumors of New Jersey making an offer for Mike "what have you done for me lately" Richards?....

No one said Fraser was "bad in the locker room".

No one tried to take away either one of his cups.

Never said he was not gritty or a slight thorn in the side of opposition (barely at times).

BUT, he provides ZERO offensive threat. and calling him a "skill" player has got to be the funniest thing I have ever read in a comment on this blog!



Aside from him taking penalties and causing goals against you would never notice him out there, we already have trevor lewis and really don't need another minute chewing ineffective forward out there. we have too many of them right now, so I wish him well, won't miss him, and hope we are posturing to fix our lackluster offense.

Speaking of ineffective minute chewing forwards... any more rumors of New Jersey making an offer for Mike "what have you done for me lately" Richards?....
- MikeOxbyg

Relax Mike, I was just trying to point out the positives of what Fraser did for our franchise. If DL thinks that Fraser's usefulness to the team has come to an end, then I support it, but we should never forget the good things he contributed. By the way, just wondering where you saw the word "skill" in my post since it wasn't there.

Relax Mike, I was just trying to point out the positives of what Fraser did for our franchise. If DL thinks that Fraser's usefulness to the team has come to an end, then I support it, but we should never forget the good things he contributed. By the way, just wondering where you saw the word "skill" in my post since it wasn't there.
- DesertKing

My bad : you were talking about Vey


I am in chaotic euphoria up because I have wanted Fraser gone for a while now...

Hoping there are more of my $hit list players getting on the fast train out of town too...

I try not to have a long memory when watching a mediocre season wherein the first half we won a lot of games we did not deserve to win and it was worrying me then, and then seeing them dump 15 of 20, I tend to forget what players have done in the past and kind of you know, look at what is happening on the ice game in and game out.

what is weird is watching footage of the cup season and seeing Brown, Williams, Voynov, and some others moving with a purpose, entering the zone with speed, taking shots, controlling the puck and all that good stuff... I just can't believe this is the same team essentially and everyone is mainlining fail-sauce every night...

20 more games to go, I want Evander Kane !!!! make it Happen Dean-O !!!

You're assuming that the 3rd line and the 4th line perform the same role, and that the 3rd line is simply better at it, and I would disagree with that. A player that is great on the 4th line might not fit in well on the 3rd line, whereas a great 3rd line player might be terrible on the 4th line. I think Lewis and Stoll are both examples of players that fit in well on the 3rd line, that don't play the intense, hard-nosed game that Clifford, Fraser, and Nolan bring.
- tkecanuck341

I would certainly agree completely with on the whole 3rd line vs checking line arguement. But the fact is that over the last month and a half, all our lines have essentially turned into checking lines. Something's got to give. Our 4th line certainly is filling the energy role, but when the team isn't getting the job done then that to me means we are lacking skill. Hence add more skill, move a forward be it Lewis or Stoll down to 4th so we can add another scoring winger.

You're right that this isn't the perfect balance. But what we've got right now isn't working. Unless we can package Stoll in a deal, which I highly doubt, I can't argue with Dean's choice on who to move. No knock on Fraser at all, but the team has more pressing needs at the moment.

My bad : you were talking about Vey


I am in chaotic euphoria up because I have wanted Fraser gone for a while now...

Hoping there are more of my $hit list players getting on the fast train out of town too...

I try not to have a long memory when watching a mediocre season wherein the first half we won a lot of games we did not deserve to win and it was worrying me then, and then seeing them dump 15 of 20, I tend to forget what players have done in the past and kind of you know, look at what is happening on the ice game in and game out.

what is weird is watching footage of the cup season and seeing Brown, Williams, Voynov, and some others moving with a purpose, entering the zone with speed, taking shots, controlling the puck and all that good stuff... I just can't believe this is the same team essentially and everyone is mainlining fail-sauce every night...

20 more games to go, I want Evander Kane !!!! make it Happen Dean-O !!!
- MikeOxbyg

Well, I wasn't talking about Vey, but if I was, the word "skill" would be a part of the description. Of course, that may be part of Vey's problem in that he is probably a future top-6 center due to his skill and not a good fit for a 3rd or 4th line role.

Well, I wasn't talking about Vey, but if I was, the word "skill" would be a part of the description. Of course, that may be part of Vey's problem in that he is probably a future top-6 center due to his skill and not a good fit for a 3rd or 4th line role.
- DesertKing

wel double dumb a$$ on me,,, it wasn't even your comment !!!

No one said Fraser was "bad in the locker room".

No one tried to take away either one of his cups.

Never said he was not gritty or a slight thorn in the side of opposition (barely at times).

BUT, he provides ZERO offensive threat. and calling him a "skill" player has got to be the funniest thing I have ever read in a comment on this blog!



Aside from him taking penalties and causing goals against you would never notice him out there, we already have trevor lewis and really don't need another minute chewing ineffective forward out there. we have too many of them right now, so I wish him well, won't miss him, and hope we are posturing to fix our lackluster offense.

Speaking of ineffective minute chewing forwards... any more rumors of New Jersey making an offer for Mike "what have you done for me lately" Richards?....
- MikeOxbyg

A few things...
First, Who said Fraser was a skill player? I certainly didn't. He's not on the ice to score goals. As I said previously, he's out there to chew up minutes and to pummel their backcheckers. Trevor Lewis certainly isn't going to drop the gloves or run any of their players through the boards.

Second, Fraser has 9 penalties in 30 games. That's not a lot for a player that plays the kind of game he does.

Third, I wouldn't consider Trevor Lewis to be ineffective. You seem to have a very one-dimensional view of what an effective player looks like. Apparently if you're not scoring goals, you suck. Granted, if you're a top-six guy and you're not putting numbers on the board, then something has to change. But the bottom-six forwards aren't out there to put the puck in the net. In the Kings system, the 3rd line is the shutdown line. Stoll and Lewis, who are probably our best penalty kill pairing, are the cornerstone of this line and one of the reasons that the Kings have the best GA/G in the NHL. They're not going to put up more than 20-30 points per season, but they're going to be solid in their own end.

Finally, Mike Richards is a premier player in this league. He's also 3rd on the team in scoring. Granted, he doesn't have as many goals as he normally does this time of the season, but aside from Carter, neither does anyone else on the Kings. He plays big minutes in all situations, is excellent on faceoffs, and is a leader on and off the ice. He is worth every dollar the Kings are paying him and we would be stupid to trade him.

Jebus, one six-week slump and everyone goes into panic mode.....

I would certainly agree completely with on the whole 3rd line vs checking line arguement. But the fact is that over the last month and a half, all our lines have essentially turned into checking lines. Something's got to give. Our 4th line certainly is filling the energy role, but when the team isn't getting the job done then that to me means we are lacking skill. Hence add more skill, move a forward be it Lewis or Stoll down to 4th so we can add another scoring winger.

You're right that this isn't the perfect balance. But what we've got right now isn't working. Unless we can package Stoll in a deal, which I highly doubt, I can't argue with Dean's choice on who to move. No knock on Fraser at all, but the team has more pressing needs at the moment.
- cryptical77

I think it's too soon to start moving people. With the same lineup we have now, the Kings began this season with the 2nd best 30-game start in franchise history. Right after Christmas, something broke and the Kings started to put up goose eggs.

So ask yourself...what changed? Well, Quick came back from injury, but has been playing well. What else...they stopped playing all the cellar-dwelling Eastern Conference teams, and they started playing on the road quite a bit in a compressed schedule due to the Olympics.

My guess is that this team is physically and mentally exhausted. They had something redonkulous like 8 games in 13 days, with most of those being on the road. I'm betting the Olympic break will do them some good, and they'll all come back in a couple weeks with renewed strength and vigor. If the slump continues up to the trade deadline, then we can start pondering trades. Right now, I think it is premature.

A few things...
First, Who said Fraser was a skill player? I certainly didn't. He's not on the ice to score goals. As I said previously, he's out there to chew up minutes and to pummel their backcheckers. Trevor Lewis certainly isn't going to drop the gloves or run any of their players through the boards.

Second, Fraser has 9 penalties in 30 games. That's not a lot for a player that plays the kind of game he does.

Third, I wouldn't consider Trevor Lewis to be ineffective. You seem to have a very one-dimensional view of what an effective player looks like. Apparently if you're not scoring goals, you suck. Granted, if you're a top-six guy and you're not putting numbers on the board, then something has to change. But the bottom-six forwards aren't out there to put the puck in the net. In the Kings system, the 3rd line is the shutdown line. Stoll and Lewis, who are probably our best penalty kill pairing, are the cornerstone of this line and one of the reasons that the Kings have the best GA/G in the NHL. They're not going to put up more than 20-30 points per season, but they're going to be solid in their own end.

Finally, Mike Richards is a premier player in this league. He's also 3rd on the team in scoring. Granted, he doesn't have as many goals as he normally does this time of the season, but aside from Carter, neither does anyone else on the Kings. He plays big minutes in all situations, is excellent on faceoffs, and is a leader on and off the ice. He is worth every dollar the Kings are paying him and we would be stupid to trade him.

Jebus, one six-week slump and everyone goes into panic mode.....
- tkecanuck341

If they are the killer shut down guys you say they are then why do they hold the highest MINUS ratings on the team, that tells me the or on the ice when goals are scored against...

Richards makes horrible passes, skates like he is tied to a tree and his hands turn into cinder blocks with in 5 feet of the crease...

Lewis and Stoll are doing OK (not awesome) at playing their roles on the ice, but if you want to see a killer 4th line doing what it is supposed to do then watch a boston bruins game. The 3rd and 4th line should have at least some ability to contribute on the score sheet sometimes. I personally am not seeing it from the Kings, and they aren't exactly shutting down certain teams which goes back to a point I have been making all along, No team speed, and we need it badly if we are going to do anything in the play offs.

I think it's too soon to start moving people. With the same lineup we have now, the Kings began this season with the 2nd best 30-game start in franchise history. Right after Christmas, something broke and the Kings started to put up goose eggs.

So ask yourself...what changed? Well, Quick came back from injury, but has been playing well. What else...they stopped playing all the cellar-dwelling Eastern Conference teams, and they started playing on the road quite a bit in a compressed schedule due to the Olympics.

My guess is that this team is physically and mentally exhausted. They had something redonkulous like 8 games in 13 days, with most of those being on the road. I'm betting the Olympic break will do them some good, and they'll all come back in a couple weeks with renewed strength and vigor. If the slump continues up to the trade deadline, then we can start pondering trades. Right now, I think it is premature.
- tkecanuck341

I hope your optimism prevails but after the break there is only 4 days to the trade deadline, so it is the exact time to talk about trades

I hope your optimism prevails but after the break there is only 4 days to the trade deadline, so it is the exact time to talk about trades
- MikeOxbyg

The first Kings game after the break is February 26 and the trade deadline is March 5. They have 7 days and 4 games to determine if the slump is continuing or not.

If they are the killer shut down guys you say they are then why do they hold the highest MINUS ratings on the team, that tells me the or on the ice when goals are scored against...

Richards makes horrible passes, skates like he is tied to a tree and his hands turn into cinder blocks with in 5 feet of the crease...

Lewis and Stoll are doing OK (not awesome) at playing their roles on the ice, but if you want to see a killer 4th line doing what it is supposed to do then watch a boston bruins game. The 3rd and 4th line should have at least some ability to contribute on the score sheet sometimes. I personally am not seeing it from the Kings, and they aren't exactly shutting down certain teams which goes back to a point I have been making all along, No team speed, and we need it badly if we are going to do anything in the play offs.
- MikeOxbyg

+/- isn't a black and white stat. Alex Ovechkin has a -17, the worst on his team... he must be terrible. It has to be viewed in context. Fraser, Nolan, and Clifford have combined for 8 goals this season (none on the power play), and Fraser is a -4, meaning he has been on the ice for 12 goals against (under the assumption that they were all on the ice when Clifford and Nolan's goals were scored). The Kings have 128 goals against this season, meaning that Fraser has been on the ice for less than 10% of them. Fraser is on the ice for, on-average, 9 minutes a game which is 15% of the time. That means that he allows less than his ice-time share of goals, but is offset by the fact that his line doesn't score a lot of goals. To look at +/- as a direct indicator of performance is like looking at the penalty kill and being critical because the PK allowed more goals then it scored.

Richards, just like the rest of the team, is in a slump. He has 9 points in the 21 games since the slump began, which is more than everyone on the team except Kopitar, Carter, and Doughty. He plays against the other team's best players, plays both on the PP and PK, and is a leader on this team. He will return to form soon enough.

I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree with Lewis and Stoll. I think they are exceptional 3rd line players, and one of the key reasons the Kings have the best defense in the league. Boston's lineup is a different dynamic than the Kings, just like every other team in the NHL. What works for Boston doesn't necessarily work for the Kings and vice versa. Last time I checked, the Kings have split the games with Boston this year, so both teams have had success against each other with their systems.

A few things...
First, Who said Fraser was a skill player? I certainly didn't. He's not on the ice to score goals. As I said previously, he's out there to chew up minutes and to pummel their backcheckers. Trevor Lewis certainly isn't going to drop the gloves or run any of their players through the boards.

Second, Fraser has 9 penalties in 30 games. That's not a lot for a player that plays the kind of game he does.

Third, I wouldn't consider Trevor Lewis to be ineffective. You seem to have a very one-dimensional view of what an effective player looks like. Apparently if you're not scoring goals, you suck. Granted, if you're a top-six guy and you're not putting numbers on the board, then something has to change. But the bottom-six forwards aren't out there to put the puck in the net. In the Kings system, the 3rd line is the shutdown line. Stoll and Lewis, who are probably our best penalty kill pairing, are the cornerstone of this line and one of the reasons that the Kings have the best GA/G in the NHL. They're not going to put up more than 20-30 points per season, but they're going to be solid in their own end.

Finally, Mike Richards is a premier player in this league. He's also 3rd on the team in scoring. Granted, he doesn't have as many goals as he normally does this time of the season, but aside from Carter, neither does anyone else on the Kings. He plays big minutes in all situations, is excellent on faceoffs, and is a leader on and off the ice. He is worth every dollar the Kings are paying him and we would be stupid to trade him.

Jebus, one six-week slump and everyone goes into panic mode.....
- tkecanuck341

I agree. On a few sites, people are talking poop about Fraser, our fourth line in general, not producing.

What the (frank) do they expect a fourth line to do?

Rather, why not focus all your scoring drought cries towards our top 2 lines? They get paid the big bucks to score!

Also, bringing in Vey for a 3rd or 4th line roll, or any of our offensively skilled younger guys, doesn't help much at all. Maybe in a system where offense comes first, defense second, but playing 9 minutes a night and expected to be a grinding line which doesn't suit your skill set is stupid and a waste of time.

Also, I love Trevor Lewis. Has brick hands, but is amazing on the PK and a great defensive minded forward.

The one guy I've never been fond of is Clifford. Clifford on the 3rd or 4th line? Ok. Sutter experimenting with Clifford on the 1st or 2nd line? Dumb.

+/- isn't a black and white stat. Alex Ovechkin has a -17, the worst on his team... he must be terrible. It has to be viewed in context. Fraser, Nolan, and Clifford have combined for 8 goals this season (none on the power play), and Fraser is a -4, meaning he has been on the ice for 12 goals against (under the assumption that they were all on the ice when Clifford and Nolan's goals were scored). The Kings have 128 goals against this season, meaning that Fraser has been on the ice for less than 10% of them. Fraser is on the ice for, on-average, 9 minutes a game which is 15% of the time. That means that he allows less than his ice-time share of goals, but is offset by the fact that his line doesn't score a lot of goals. To look at +/- as a direct indicator of performance is like looking at the penalty kill and being critical because the PK allowed more goals then it scored.

Richards, just like the rest of the team, is in a slump. He has 9 points in the 21 games since the slump began, which is more than everyone on the team except Kopitar, Carter, and Doughty. He plays against the other team's best players, plays both on the PP and PK, and is a leader on this team. He will return to form soon enough.

I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree with Lewis and Stoll. I think they are exceptional 3rd line players, and one of the key reasons the Kings have the best defense in the league. Boston's lineup is a different dynamic than the Kings, just like every other team in the NHL. What works for Boston doesn't necessarily work for the Kings and vice versa. Last time I checked, the Kings have split the games with Boston this year, so both teams have had success against each other with their systems.
- tkecanuck341

Ovechkin is Minus 17? I wonder why....

The first Kings game after the break is February 26 and the trade deadline is March 5. They have 7 days and 4 games to determine if the slump is continuing or not.
- tkecanuck341

oh ok I guess we should continue the mantra that is working so well...

The other options we have for 4th line center don't bring to the table what Fraser does. Vey is a smallish skill player (think Moller/Loktionov), while Lewis is a PK/defense-first player. Neither of them bring the energy, intensity, and hits that Fraser bring to the lineup. Clifford and Nolan are both the same type of player as Fraser. Lewis fits in better on a line with Stoll.

If you're arguing that we should retool the 4th line entirely to turn it into a defense-first, non-physical line, then that's a different debate entirely. However, the the Kings do not have a better option than Fraser to fill the gritty, hard-hitting role that fits in with Clifford and Nolan on our current look 4th line.
- tkecanuck341

And if we trade for Gagner?

Kopitar
Richards
Gagner
Stoll

Unless there's a 5th line I'm unaware of, I believe that would cover it.

Things to remember about Fraser:

When we got him from Edmonton, he was damaged goods (even though Tambellini swore he was fine).

Fraser immediately showed that he was a quality person with how he handled the situation and talked to the fans at HockeyFest.

We all thought Fraser would end up being just a salary dump in the Ryan Smythe deal, but guess who scored the first goal for us in the 2012 SCF?

Fraser brought grit, the ability to hit people and get under the skin of our opponents.

Terrific presence in the locker room.

Hopefully some positive things come his way because he definitely was a positive influence for the Kings and helped us win the Cup.
- DesertKing

The problem lies in the fact that Fraser no longer consistantly does what he began doing post injury. In fact, I'd say he's been downright bad this season.

You guys need to keep in pespective that this is a performance-based industry. If you don't produce consistantly, especially the cheap/bottom-tier players, you don't play. There's really no magic to it.

The problem lies in the fact that Fraser no longer consistantly does what he began doing post injury. In fact, I'd say he's been downright bad this season.

You guys need to keep in pespective that this is a performance-based industry. If you don't produce consistantly, especially the cheap/bottom-tier players, you don't play. There's really no magic to it.
- Ersberg

Well said!

oh ok I guess we should continue the mantra that is working so well...
- MikeOxbyg

We're in 3rd place in the Pacific, what isn't working well? It's not time to blow up the team because we're on a cold streak. The year we won the Cup, we were 2nd to last in the league in goals scored. Guess where we are this year? There's still time to turn it around.

If it is indeed fatigue that is responsible for the Kings slumping play of late, then that should be a non-issue after the Olympics. We have a week to find out. If they go 0-2 after the break, then they can pull the trigger on some trades.

Ovechkin is Minus 17? I wonder why....
- MikeOxbyg

Does that mean you wouldn't want Ovechkin on your team? He certainly would solve our LW woes.

And if we trade for Gagner?

Kopitar
Richards
Gagner
Stoll

Unless there's a 5th line I'm unaware of, I believe that would cover it.
- Ersberg

I highly doubt Gagner comes to LA unless one of our centers goes the other way. However, if I play armchair GM for a minute, I could probably make it work.

Richards/Kopitar/Carter
Gagner
Stoll
Fraser

Remember that Richards played on the LW with Carter at C and Toffoli at RW for a while.

I think that trading for Gagner would be stupid, but there's ways to make it work.

We're in 3rd place in the Pacific, what isn't working well? It's not time to blow up the team because we're on a cold streak. The year we won the Cup, we were 2nd to last in the league in goals scored. Guess where we are this year? There's still time to turn it around.

If it is indeed fatigue that is responsible for the Kings slumping play of late, then that should be a non-issue after the Olympics. We have a week to find out. If they go 0-2 after the break, then they can pull the trigger on some trades.
- tkecanuck341

I am just basing it on what I see on the ice, not so much the stat sheet or the standings... There were a lot of games early in the season that we won that we had no business winning and I considered the team lucky

So yeah I do get a little bent when I don't see any steps being taken to fix the power play, improve the on-ice approach and beefing up the forecheck a bit, getting to good scoring positions, taking care of the puck better, getting out of the zone efficiently, staying out of the box by moving your damn feet as opposed to using the stick to make up for lack of speed. These are all effort and mental aspects that they could fix with the current line up and it's simply not getting done.
that is why I am looking for a shake up. I give a little credibility to the fatigue excuse but at the end of the day these are pro's, all teams will hit a tough patch of the schedule and they should be in shape enough to nut up a little and get through it without dropping 15 of 20 games...

just sayin, and I will strike a deal with you, if the kings back their way out of the play offs you must retract your comments that make me sound crazy, and if they don't I will give you the Zen award !


Good talk, thanks for the banter

Does that mean you wouldn't want Ovechkin on your team? He certainly would solve our LW woes.
- tkecanuck341

all I was pointing out is that he is not exactly selke material, now if you could cross breed him with Kopitar.... woot ! that would be something.

Just noticed you are in Irvine !!! hahhahahaaa So am I