Patrick Burke needs to get off his (frank)in' high horse.

Patrick Burke needs to get off his (frank)in' high horse.
- dt99999

What did he do now?

That would be because when it gets to the point of disolving a union, the workers rights have exceeded what would be feasable for the business to survive.


In my home town there has been a union lockout that closed a Packing plant for 15 years and if they ever decide to start it back up again they would owe the Union 15 years in back fees no matter if they have been working all this time or not.

So the Union thinks they won because the company went out of business but the city has suffered for it and those ex workers complain that the city can't attract businesses ignoring the fact they are a part of that problem.
- Oilhab

I don't know in which way this example brings something more to the discussion, I already admitted the unions having so much power is problematic. You're not bringing any solution, but simply complaining about the Unions.

Québec is not stopping any good candidates from coming here. Not every doctor in Québec speaks French. There are English hospitals, notably in Montréal. Some Doctors there don't speak a word of French. Those hospitals are not different from the Francophone ones, they also lack in staff.

I know you can't really stop people from leaving, but you can in counterpart encourage them to stay. Those are two very different things.
- Jean_Perron

Right. But if the work conditions and the pay are similar to the rest of the world, then they are leaving for other reasons, quality of life maybe, not wanting to hang around a sinking ship, whatever it might be.

Most the time when someone has made up their mind that they are going to find another job, it doesn't matter how much money their current job will offer them, they are going to leave. They may temporarily accept the money but they will still be planning to leave at the next opportunity.

I don't know in which way this example brings something more to the discussion, I already admitted the unions having so much power is problematic. You're not bringing any solution, but simply complaining about the Unions.
- Jean_Perron

It was just an example of unions rights exceeding the feasibilty of the company.

So if a company is going to survive after desolving a union they can't maintain the same level of "rights" given to the worker at that time.

Which is why you have never seen an example of a union disolving and the workers ending up as well off as they were before.

Bunch of nurses laid off here yesterday by gov't.

Bunch of nurses laid off here yesterday by gov't.
- BingoLady

Probably naughty nurses giving handies to the old perverts for beers

Right. But if the work conditions and the pay are similar to the rest of the world, then they are leaving for other reasons, quality of life maybe, not wanting to hang around a sinking ship, whatever it might be.

Most the time when someone has made up their mind that they are going to find another job, it doesn't matter how much money their current job will offer them, they are going to leave. They may temporarily accept the money but they will still be planning to leave at the next opportunity.
- Oilhab

Doctors and Nurses are underpaid in Québec for the workload they have to face. I've been saying it for a few posts now...

I believe that's the main reason why (paired with major decrease in active population/ the stupid move of pushing docs/nurses to early retirement) we have a lack of nurses and doctors. In order to correct that, there are two solutions: increase the job experience by lowering the workload which means a massive increase in hiring OR increasing the salary. Both solutions could be done by stopping to hire so many admins/bosses that don't help in the productivity/ quality of the service given to the customers.

Doctors and Nurses are underpaid in Québec for the workload they have to face. I've been saying it for a few posts now...

I believe that's the main reason why (paired with major decrease in active population/ the stupid move of pushing docs/nurses to early retirement) we have a lack of nurses and doctors. In order to correct that, there are two solutions: increase the job experience by lowering the workload which means a massive increase in hiring OR increasing the salary. Both solutions could be done by stopping to hire so many admins/bosses that don't help in the productivity/ quality of the service given to the customers.
- Jean_Perron

http://wpp01.msss.gouv.qc...araisonsinterprovinciales

It was just an example of unions rights exceeding the feasibilty of the company.

So if a company is going to survive after desolving a union they can't maintain the same level of "rights" given to the worker at that time.

Which is why you have never seen an example of a union disolving and the workers ending up as well off as they were before.
- Oilhab

My problem with dissolving unions is what happens with the rights of the workers. They will accept a small decrease in terms of rights, but there is a certain limit. And when that certain limit is attained and the workers want to defend their legitimate rights, what will happen? Who will defend their rights? The Employers?



Let's not forget what was the life of a worker when the Employers were the sole definers of what was the employees rights.

http://wpp01.msss.gouv.qc...araisonsinterprovinciales
- fidopro

Numbers from 2006. That was 8 years ago. Besides, those numbers don't tell if the amount of nurses/docs is enough, but only compare with the other provinces.

But yeah you can a clear increase in the amount of meds needed for people aged of 65 or older, which means most likely means an increase in that group of age, which is pretty bad news

Numbers from 2006. That was 8 years ago.
- Jean_Perron

And the layoff by the PQ was 16 years ago. Find an other excuse.
You really believe numbers have changed that much in 6 years? I don't.
Where you are right is about their salary, they are paid less in Qc than other provinces, but then aren't we all...

And the layoff by the PQ was 16 years ago. Find an other excuse.
You really believe numbers have changed that much in 6 years? I don't.
Where you are right is about their salary, they are paid less in Qc than other provinces, but then aren't we all...
- fidopro

So great, you've just helped me defend a move I thought was stupid by the PQ. Thanks

Doctors and Nurses are underpaid in Québec for the workload they have to face. I've been saying it for a few posts now...

I believe that's the main reason why (paired with major decrease in active population/ the stupid move of pushing docs/nurses to early retirement) we have a lack of nurses and doctors. In order to correct that, there are two solutions: increase the job experience by lowering the workload which means a massive increase in hiring OR increasing the salary. Both solutions could be done by stopping to hire so many admins/bosses that don't help in the productivity/ quality of the service given to the customers.
- Jean_Perron

Do you know by how much they are paid less then the national average?
As i said if it is not drastically different then it won't make much difference.

As a general statement, businesses push people into retirement because of their insurance and/or they don't want to pay someone the money they are being paid for declining service.

I don't know if keeping a bunch of old doctors around is a good solution to the problem.

I don't think you answered it before but are these "boses" not Elderly Physicians that are being retained by the Hospitals for their expertise rather then their failing ability to do the job?

Sounds like Quebec has too many old Doctors.

So great, you've just helped me defend a move I thought was stupid by the PQ. Thanks
- Jean_Perron

Oh it was stupid, that's for sure. My point is that the problem is not worse than for other provinces, proving that the language have absolutely no impact what so ever on the situation.

My problem with dissolving unions is what happens with the rights of the workers. They will accept a small decrease in terms of rights, but there is a certain limit. And when that certain limit is attained and the workers want to defend their legitimate rights, what will happen? Who will defend their rights? The Employers?



Let's not forget what was the life of a worker when the Employers were the sole definers of what was the employees rights.
- Jean_Perron

This sounds like the same argument that the americans use when people want to take away their guns. "If we don't have guns who will protect us from the evil governement "

Maybe those people who are worried about their rights being protecting should focus on doing their job and standing up for themselves. If you don't feel you are being compensated properly for the work you do then find another job.

Oh it was stupid, that's for sure. My point is that the problem is not worse than for other provinces, proving that the language have absolutely no impact what so ever on the situation.
- fidopro

You should have sent that to Oilhab then. I don't think I ever said that the language was a problem. Rather the salary/quality of work experience.

You should have sent that to Oilhab then. I don't think I ever said that the language was a problem. Rather the salary/quality of work experience.
- Jean_Perron

I'm sure he got the point. Well... almost sure.

You should have sent that to Oilhab then. I don't think I ever said that the language was a problem. Rather the salary/quality of work experience.
- Jean_Perron

If it is not a problem then it is not. Some other poster made it seem like if they don't speak french then they were in the wrong province to begin with.

Which seemed silly if you need their abilities.

If it is not a problem then it is not. Some other poster made it seem like if they don't speak french then they were in the wrong province to begin with.

Which seemd silly if you need their abilities.
- Oilhab

This poster was perfectly right. Would you go see a doctor who doesn't speak English?

Jesus guys. Really? Still this poop?

This poster was perfectly right. Would you go see a doctor who doesn't speak English?
- fidopro

If i could understand the language he was speaking, yes.

and yes to only partially understanding it as well.

I'm sure he got the point. Well... almost sure.
- fidopro

I don't think he can read French, sadly for him.

If i could understand the language he was speaking, yes.

and yes to only partially understanding it as well.
- Oilhab

What if you (or the doctor) couldn't understand a word?

Now take under consideration that 60% of the population here speak French only.
Still think we should hire more English only doctors?