Grossmann is a legitimate top 4 defenseman in the NHL.
- MJL

I'd say he's more of a 3rd pairing guy on a decent team. It would depend on match ups though.

The real question we should all be asking...

Is Grossmann >,<,or = Randy Jones?
- jak521

Me > Randy Jones. Because I'll screw up for less money.

Grossmann is a legitimate top 4 defenseman in the NHL.
- MJL

Agreed. I can see him playing on thier 2nd or 3rd pairing, depending on his partner. Very solid defenseman, and I wouldn't be thrilled with moving him. I think he would be a great guy to pair with a young kid like Gostisbere next year.

Good thing we didn't trade for the 14 year rental of Shea Weber.
- jmatchett383

Agreed. I can see him playing on thier 2nd or 3rd pairing, depending on his partner. Very solid defenseman, and I wouldn't be thrilled with moving him. I think he would be a great guy to pair with a young kid like Gostisbere next year.
- youarewrong

I don't think Ghost will make the jump from college to the NHL right off the bat (assuming he forgoes his senior year). But I think Alt makes it next year.

I don't ever recall saying Meszaros has played well. I recall saying that Meszaros gets benched for poor play, while Grossmann has not been.

If your point is, well Grossmann has played bad, but so has Meszaros, so Grossmann should play because he was more solid last season really doesn't make sense in the context of the conversation.

Neither has played well this season, and for both it's been a season long issue of inconsistency. The same goes for Luke Schenn and Erik Gustafsson. My issue is, why is it OK to sit Schenn or Gustafsson or Meszaros for a bad game, when Grossmann stays in the line up?
- Jsaquella

Not only that, but Meszy got benched after playing some of his best hockey over the past few seasons. He was a real catalyst out there for a good stretch, had a bad game and heads right back to the press box.

I'd say he's more of a 3rd pairing guy on a decent team. It would depend on match ups though.
- PhillySportsGuy

He was mainly a bottom-pair dman in Dallas, and they weren't exactly deep on D.

I don't ever recall saying Meszaros has played well. I recall saying that Meszaros gets benched for poor play, while Grossmann has not been.

If your point is, well Grossmann has played bad, but so has Meszaros, so Grossmann should play because he was more solid last season really doesn't make sense in the context of the conversation.

Neither has played well this season, and for both it's been a season long issue of inconsistency. The same goes for Luke Schenn and Erik Gustafsson. My issue is, why is it OK to sit Schenn or Gustafsson or Meszaros for a bad game, when Grossmann stays in the line up?
- Jsaquella

My point is that Grossmann has played poorly, but he's still one our the team's 6 best defenseman. I don't think the team should bench players unless it's a wake up call or because someone else is better.

Grossmann isn't the type of player you bench to give a wake up call. He's the type of guy you let play through his struggles.

I agree. All you have to do is watch the highlights and game film that's available to know how well Grossmann has played this year. He most certainly had a bad stretch of games in January. And he deserves criticism for that. But overall he remains a solid defensive defenseman.
- MJL

Pass it to me... you have had enough.

Unfortunately, the league doesn't seem to track icings as a stat. But I would bet $10 that Grossmann leads the Flyers in icings taken this season.
- Feanor

And that again is another situation where each play has to be looked at individually, and conclude why the puck was iced. What were the other options available, what the situation was.

I don't think Ghost will make the jump from college to the NHL right off the bat (assuming he forgoes his senior year). But I think Alt makes it next year.
- jmatchett383

I would like to see Ghost play in the AHL to start next season. That would be a good transition for him.

I don't think Ghost will make the jump from college to the NHL right off the bat (assuming he forgoes his senior year). But I think Alt makes it next year.
- jmatchett383

You never know... With Timonen and Mez gone next year, I think there is a decent chance anyone of the following make the team:

Morin, Alt, Konan, Laurdisen, and Gostisbere. I think Hagg will need at least 1 seaosn in the AHL. IMO it will be a pony race in training camp.. One I will be looking forward to watching.

He was mainly a bottom-pair dman in Dallas, and they weren't exactly deep on D.
- Tomahawk

I stand by what I said

I would like to see Ghost play in the AHL to start next season. That would be a good transition for him.
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed. He's been skating circles around college kids for the last 3 years. I don't want to see his game (defensively) go the way of Jack Johnson.

You never know... With Timonen and Mez gone next year, I think there is a decent chance anyone of the following make the team:

Morin, Alt, Konan, Laurdisen, and Gostisbere. I think Hagg will need at least 1 seaosn in the AHL. IMO it will be a pony race in training camp.. One I will be looking forward to watching.
- youarewrong

I think Alt and Lauridson have a chance. Ghost has an outside chance. Konan..no. Morin and Hagg will return to Juniors and Sweden for next season. They aren't ready yet.

I don't think Ghost will make the jump from college to the NHL right off the bat (assuming he forgoes his senior year). But I think Alt makes it next year.
- jmatchett383

I definitely have the hunch that one of the kids is going to be in the lineup to start next season, whether it's a prototypical Flyers rush job or not, just out of necessity.

His Corsi, Fenwick and other stats are similar to last season. The WOWY data is, unfortunately not readily available.

The difference between us is, I'd like to see Grossmann held accountable to the standards that the other players are held. If Meszaros has a bad game or two, he gets scratched. When Grossmann does, he continues to play.

Regardless of whether or not one "deserves" a chance to play out of their issues, holding some guys accountable and other guys get a free reign is not a good way to instill discipline and get everyone to play better.
- Jsaquella

That's because the Coaches are aware of the situation that Grossmann has been put in, and what he's faced with on a game by game basis. And they watch the game film to rate the player. And I assure you that if Grossman's play was actually at the level that you state it has been, the Coaches might take that approach. But overall it hasn't been that way, in my opinion.

With the exception of one month, Grossmann is reliable. Mez is totally unreliable. You never know what the hell he's going to do. He's, also, unwilling to be physical.

Coaches prefer having a known commodity. Grossmann has worked up a strong body of work that suggests January was just a bump in the road. Mez has been injured and unreliable this season.
- PhillySportsGuy

Well said.

You never know... With Timonen and Mez gone next year, I think there is a decent chance anyone of the following make the team:

Morin, Alt, Konan, Laurdisen, and Gostisbere. I think Hagg will need at least 1 seaosn in the AHL. IMO it will be a pony race in training camp.. One I will be looking forward to watching.
- youarewrong

Well Hagg already said he's playing next year in Sweden. I don't think Morin's progressed enough this year to compete. Konan has yet to impress me. I think it's between Alt, Lauridsen, and MAB (if healthy) for spots next year. Unless other trades are made, next year you have:

Streit
Gus
Coburn
Grossmann
Schenn

That leaves 1 starting spot open.

Agreed. He's been skating circles around college kids for the last 3 years. I don't want to see his game (defensively) go the way of Jack Johnson.
- jmatchett383

The AHL won't be a huge step in overall skill, but he will need to matchup against grown men. Thats the aspect he needs to get better at to have a lengthy NHL career.

It's really the perfect transition.

He could end up going the way of JVR and return to college to be the big man on campus.

My point is that Grossmann has played poorly, but he's still one our the team's 6 best defenseman. I don't think the team should bench players unless it's a wake up call or because someone else is better.

Grossmann isn't the type of player you bench to give a wake up call. He's the type of guy you let play through his struggles.
- PhillySportsGuy

Except he hasn't been one of their best 6 guys night in and out. He's struggled for 50+ games so far.

When you look at everything, game footage, highlights and analytical measurements, Grossmann hasn't been one of their best 6 guys. He's a limited third pair guy, who has subpar mobility and puck skills on a team that desperately lacks speed and puck moving ability.

He simply hasn't been good and the things that have been reliable is the physicality and shot blocks, along with turnovers and a lot of opposition time in the Flyers end.

I don't ever recall saying Meszaros has played well. I recall saying that Meszaros gets benched for poor play, while Grossmann has not been.

If your point is, well Grossmann has played bad, but so has Meszaros, so Grossmann should play because he was more solid last season really doesn't make sense in the context of the conversation.

Neither has played well this season, and for both it's been a season long issue of inconsistency. The same goes for Luke Schenn and Erik Gustafsson. My issue is, why is it OK to sit Schenn or Gustafsson or Meszaros for a bad game, when Grossmann stays in the line up?
- Jsaquella

Meszaros is UFA and Grossmann is not. While Meszaros was playing good offensively he was still having issues defensively. Grossmann, while playing poorly, is still blocking shots. Its the obvious choice IMO when both guys are equal, you keep Grossmann in and bench Meszaros.

And that again is another situation where each play has to be looked at individually, and conclude why the puck was iced. What were the other options available, what the situation was.
- MJL

or:

1- Is the guy capable of making a nice first pass
2- Has the guy fumbled the puck allowing the opposition to get good pressure on him, forcing him to make a panic clear.
3- Why have other players not suffered from the same issues with as much frequency.

Meszaros is UFA and Grossmann is not. While Meszaros was playing good offensively he was still having issues defensively. Grossmann, while playing poorly, is still blocking shots. Its the obvious choice IMO when both guys are equal, you keep Grossmann in and bench Meszaros.
- youarewrong

The problem is, the reason he blocks so many shots is because he allows so many scoring chances.

Well Hagg already said he's playing next year in Sweden. I don't think Morin's progressed enough this year to compete. Konan has yet to impress me. I think it's between Alt, Lauridsen, and MAB (if healthy) for spots next year. Unless other trades are made, next year you have:

Streit
Gus
Coburn
Grossmann
Schenn

That leaves 1 starting spot open.
- jmatchett383

MAB and Lauridson will be on one-way contracts I think. That will give them an edge to make the opening night roster over Alt.