So which of these trades would you guys do

Read and Simmonds for Maata
Read, Laughton and 1st for Letang
Coburn and 2014 1st for Dougie Hamilton
- PhillySportsGuy

I'd lean towards the last one.

And if that is a 2014 1st, I'd do the Letang one

Read and Simmonds for Maata - sadly, no
Read, Laughton and 1st for Letang - yes
Coburn and 2014 1st for Dougie Hamilton - no

I could rework them, but right now, Simmonds, while not untouchable, would be hard to pry away. Also, I'd do Coburn and a 2nd for Hamilton, but not a 1st.
- jmatchett383

I feel all of those proposals are pretty fair.

So which of these trades would you guys do

Read and Simmonds for Maata
Read, Laughton and 1st for Letang
Coburn and 2014 1st for Dougie Hamilton
- PhillySportsGuy

I'd do the Letang one. Nay on the other two.

I feel all of those proposals are pretty fair.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think that it's too much for Maatta.

Grossmann's size only comes into play because the team is constantly hemmed in their own zone when he's out on the ice. It would be addition by subtraction if they could unload him and his contract, imo.

I think Hainsey could fill Grossmann's minutes 5-on-5 and on the PK and the team would be better for it.
- bradleyc4

Grossmann -- who has apparently become the designated "this is the guy we need to get rid of" whipping boy when he is actually a solid NHL defenseman who performs a valuable role for the team -- is the type of D man that teams need in the playoffs.

It would be nice if the Flyers could get Hainsey but I would only offer Meszaros --- UFA rental for UFA rental -- as the player going the other way.

I think that it's too much for Maatta.
- Jsaquella

Yeah. What if it's

Maata & Sutter for Read, Simmonds & 2 2nd rounders.

I feel all of those proposals are pretty fair.
- PhillySportsGuy

Fair value, yes.
Fair as far as net effect on the team, maybe.
Take the Maata deal. It's fair value. But we're giving up a young power forward and a good 2-way player to a division rival for a 19-year-old kid with !50 games of NHL experience. Now, it may be a good/fair deal in 5 years (I see him as a better version on Letang, actually), but he's still a relative unknown. Patrick Lalime looked like a perennial Vezina winner his first 25 or so starts. So did Jim Carey,

I'd do the Letang one. Nay on the other two.
- bradleyc4

That's how I'd roll.

Yeah. What if it's

Maata & Sutter for Read, Simmonds & 2 2nd rounders.
- PhillySportsGuy

I really am just against moving Simmonds to our biggest division rival, unless it's a clear win. And Sutter doesn't impress me. If it was Bennett, I'd have to think about it.

Dude...this lady in my section...literally fifteen uninterrupted minutes of nonstop profanity-laced swearing. I am not exxagerating. She literally screamed for 15 minutes straight. She and I are not exactly friendly.
- jmatchett383

I knew that puck was in.

I didn't even stay around to watch Chicago skate around with the Cup.

I was so heavily invested (emotionally and financially), I couldn't bring myself to watch.

Furthermore, our seats were surrounded by family members of the some of the Hawks (Byfuglien's mom and GF and the Campbell family were behind us).

We just got up out of our seats and left. I couldn't watch.

Fair value, yes.
Fair as far as net effect on the team, maybe.
Take the Maata deal. It's fair value. But we're giving up a young power forward and a good 2-way player to a division rival for a 19-year-old kid with !50 games of NHL experience. Now, it may be a good/fair deal in 5 years (I see him as a better version on Letang, actually), but he's still a relative unknown. Patrick Lalime looked like a perennial Vezina winner his first 25 or so starts. So did Jim Carey,
- jmatchett383

I know. I just really like Maata. I think he's going to be really good. Pens fans have been amazed by his two-way play.

Grossmann -- who has apparently become the designated "this is the guy we need to get rid of" whipping boy when he is actually a solid NHL defenseman who performs a valuable role for the team -- is the type of D man that teams need in the playoffs.

It would be nice if the Flyers could get Hainsey but I would only offer Meszaros --- UFA rental for UFA rental -- as the player going the other way.
- bmeltzer

I believe there are justified reasons as to why Grossmann is a whipping boy. I'm not saying that Grossmann isn't an NHL defender, I believe that the team is asking him to do too much, and it's hurting them.

Personally, I think Luke Schenn fills the role nicely. But I see that role as top PK unit/3rd pairing at even-strength. The Flyers lack of legit top-4 defensemen has thrust Grossmann into a role he's not suited for.

I know. I just really like Maata. I think he's going to be really good. Pens fans have been amazed by his two-way play.
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree. I've watched maybe 15 games this year, and he looks flat-out amazing. But I still wouldn't do it. I just have this vision of Simmonds powering pucks into our net for the next 10 years.

I know. I just really like Maata. I think he's going to be really good. Pens fans have been amazed by his two-way play.
- PhillySportsGuy

I watch a lot of Penguins games. The things he sees and does on the ice for a 19-year-old are amazing.

I'm sure it's Despres who will ultimately be the one that gets traded for a winger.

I agree. I've watched maybe 15 games this year, and he looks flat-out amazing. But I still wouldn't do it. I just have this vision of Simmonds powering pucks into our net for the next 10 years.
- jmatchett383

He looks like a future top pairing defenseman. I love Simmonds too, but it's easier to find power forwards than top pairing defenseman.

It's a huge risk as Maata isn't a given, but I think he will, at worst, be a good, two-way, top 4 guy.

Grossmann -- who has apparently become the designated "this is the guy we need to get rid of" whipping boy when he is actually a solid NHL defenseman who performs a valuable role for the team -- is the type of D man that teams need in the playoffs.

It would be nice if the Flyers could get Hainsey but I would only offer Meszaros --- UFA rental for UFA rental -- as the player going the other way.
- bmeltzer

My view of Grossmann is that he's a limited guy, being asked to do too much.

He's definitely a gritty, hard working player, willing to sacrifice his body for the team and more than willing to plant an opposing player into the wall.

But he's got below average mobility, below average puck skills and has shown an alarming tendency to get beat on plays and worse, to make bad reads or blow coverages when things get scrambly. I do feel part of this is usage and who he plays with.

That said and not to make it an analytics debate, it's staggering to me that everyone one on the team has worse possession stats when playing with Grossmann. If it was just one guy, or a handful of guys, it'd be no big deal. But it's team wide.

To me, that's a worrisome trend. My concerns/issues with Grossmann are far from statistical. I just don't think he's played well this season.

I watch a lot of Penguins games. The things he sees and does on the ice for a 19-year-old are amazing.

I'm sure it's Despres who will ultimately be the one that gets traded for a winger.
- bradleyc4

Which is crazy, because Despres is a pretty solid defenseman, kind of like a much more talented MAB. He's big, he can hit, he can skate, and has a nice shot. But for some reason, they refuse to give him a legit shot.

I watch a lot of Penguins games. The things he sees and does on the ice for a 19-year-old are amazing.

I'm sure it's Despres who will ultimately be the one that gets traded for a winger.
- bradleyc4

His stock has fallen since last year. I agree with you, but I'm not sure he brings back the type of player Pens fans will be expecting.

He looks like a future top pairing defenseman. I love Simmonds too, but it's easier to find power forwards than top pairing defenseman.

It's a huge risk as Maata isn't a given, but I think he will, at worst, be a good, two-way, top 4 guy.
- PhillySportsGuy

He really does look like one. I'm not saying he is the next Lidstrom, but his play is very reminiscent of a young Lidstrom. Again, he is NOT Lidstrom (to me, one of the 3 best ever), but he may be the next Niedermayer.

Yeah. What if it's

Maata & Sutter for Read, Simmonds & 2 2nd rounders.
- PhillySportsGuy

My concern with Maatta is the long term development.

The reason he fell to 22 was that the general consensus on him was that he was very NHL ready, but lacked the skills to develop into a true number one defenseman.

The things he's done at age 19 are stellar, and he's been far better than I expected. But that's a huge haul for a kid that could easily regress or even stagnate and just end up as a very solid second pair guy.

His stock has fallen since last year. I agree with you, but I'm not sure he brings back the type of player Pens fans will be expecting.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'd do Read for him straight-up, maybe Read + 2nd.

My view of Grossmann is that he's a limited guy, being asked to do too much.

He's definitely a gritty, hard working player, willing to sacrifice his body for the team and more than willing to plant an opposing player into the wall.

But he's got below average mobility, below average puck skills and has shown an alarming tendency to get beat on plays and worse, to make bad reads or blow coverages when things get scrambly. I do feel part of this is usage and who he plays with.

That said and not to make it an analytics debate, it's staggering to me that everyone one on the team has worse possession stats when playing with Grossmann. If it was just one guy, or a handful of guys, it'd be no big deal. But it's team wide.

To me, that's a worrisome trend. My concerns/issues with Grossmann are far from statistical. I just don't think he's played well this season.
- Jsaquella

I really think you're exaggerating a bit on his poor defensive play. He had a terrible month of January. He was -10 for the month. He's -11 for the season.

I really think you're exaggerating a bit on his poor defensive play. He had a terrible month of January. He was -10 for the month. He's -11 for the season.
- PhillySportsGuy

Trade him for J-Bo? I mean, Danny Syvret?

My concern with Maatta is the long term development.

The reason he fell to 22 was that the general consensus on him was that he was very NHL ready, but lacked the skills to develop into a true number one defenseman.

The things he's done at age 19 are stellar, and he's been far better than I expected. But that's a huge haul for a kid that could easily regress or even stagnate and just end up as a very solid second pair guy.
- Jsaquella

Considering hes ALREADY a solid 2nd pairing, two-way defense on most teams, I'd say he has a ton of potential.

I doubt anyone predicted the absolute destruction we saw last night.
- Jsaquella

Not to take anything away from seattle, but man they looked almost two steps faster than denver all over the field... Just makes me wonder if any "supplements" were put in their gatorade.