Laughton is more a couturier type....he definitely projects to NHL talent wise at a 2 or 3 center which focuses on both ends of the ice.....he is the wild card ...because if he arrives sooner then later then one of these two may be on the move....honestly there worth is only going rise...
- landros 2

Or maybe Laughton gets moved.

Or maybe Laughton gets moved.
- MBFlyerfan

Depending in who has more trade value, Courturier would have that, but he's too valuable

I've been saying that this kid is gonna win a Selke trophy someday since his rookie season. His game reminds me of Guy Carbonneau big time.
- BiggE

The Selke tends to go to a player who scores a lot of points and is good defensively, so Couturier is still a long way off winning one. But he's already one of the best forwards in the league defensively.

Depending in who has more trade value, Courturier would have that, but he's too valuable
- puckhead17

I dont think Laughton is even in Couturiers league for potential. Remember we are talking about a guy who was one time a possible #1 pick who only dropped because he got sick.

Laughton is a good player but some felt he was a reach for the first round. He is definitely an NHL player, but not a Selke level player like Couturier looks like will become.

Great effort Flyers. It was nice to see that the team can actually play together, and provide some D. I would have liked to have seen more shots on goal by our forwards, but one step at a time. They didn't crumble, and Mason stood tall. Let's learn from this win, and build upon it.
A positive. Oh, and congrats to Simmer.

I dont think Laughton is even in Couturiers league for potential. Remember we are talking about a guy who was one time a possible #1 pick who only dropped because he got sick.

Laughton is a good player but some felt he was a reach for the first round. He is definitely an NHL player, but not a Selke level player like Couturier looks like will become.
- MBFlyerfan

I don't know or follow the paths of the picks as much, or as well as most posters, we do know though as soon as Courturier, at 18, stepped on the ice, he was here to stay & that says plenty.
Again, I love his game, but I don't want to see him get too defensive, where his production suffers, time will tell on this.

I dont think Laughton is even in Couturiers league for potential. Remember we are talking about a guy who was one time a possible #1 pick who only dropped because he got sick.

Laughton is a good player but some felt he was a reach for the first round. He is definitely an NHL player, but not a Selke level player like Couturier looks like will become.
- MBFlyerfan

Honestly, of all the young forwards, Laughton is the one I would move. If he could land them a Rundblad or similar player, I'd have done it yesterday.

It's been a major issue at times all Season . The defenseman on this team get far too much of the blame.
- MJL

Are we gonna have a steel cage match debate between you and jsaq on grossman? If so i will risk failing all four classes this semester to watch and read! Btw im on the fence how i feel. And not sure if i said it already but welcome back!

Honestly, of all the young forwards, Laughton is the one I would move. If he could land them a Rundblad or similar player, I'd have done it yesterday.
- Jsaquella

Agreed.

Laughton's value should go up once he starts playing full time in the NHL. After some of the atrocious 4th lines we've rolled out this season I'm in no hurry to move him.

Honestly, of all the young forwards, Laughton is the one I would move. If he could land them a Rundblad or similar player, I'd have done it yesterday.
- Jsaquella

x7

Are we gonna have a steel cage match debate between you and jsaq on grossman? If so i will risk failing all four classes this semester to watch and read! Btw im on the fence how i feel. And not sure if i said it already but welcome back!
- JoeRussomanno

There's zero need to argue. I think Grossmann's been bad most of the year and down right horrible for most of the last month. If someone disagrees, that's their opinion. It's not going to sway me.

I'd like to see Grossmann play better and I don't hate him. In fact, I like him, because he works his ass off and plays a tough, physical game and plays through injuries if he possibly can do so. I just don't think he's played well, overall. He's had a some good games, but he's also had some really bad ones. Worse, he's had some really good games where he made one really bad mistake and it cost the team.

I do feel part of the issue is usage and pairings, but it's really damning when the team gets outshot-on average- of nearly 3-1 when Grossmann is on the ice and when every single player on the roster has a worse Corsi & Fenwick ratings when on the ice with Grossmann.

No, Corsi and Fenwick are not the end all, be all, but they do a good job of indicating puck possession...and when Grossmann is on the ice, generally the Flyers don't have the puck.

Laughton's value should go up once he starts playing full time in the NHL. After some of the atrocious 4th lines we've rolled out this season I'm in no hurry to move him.
- Feanor

If they decided not to carry guys like Rosehill, they could easily ice a very solid 4th line.

Hell, even Raffl, Hall and Rinaldo is a solid 4th line, outside of finishing ability.

I dont think Laughton is even in Couturiers league for potential. Remember we are talking about a guy who was one time a possible #1 pick who only dropped because he got sick.

Laughton is a good player but some felt he was a reach for the first round. He is definitely an NHL player, but not a Selke level player like Couturier looks like will become.
- MBFlyerfan

Potential, ceilings, upsides...all words expressed by optimistic scouts and GM's based on projections. Some work out, others don't. The DNA makeup of the kid has as much to do with how he performs as a pro, and that's not easy to predict.

That's how the Tocchet's of the hockey world end up getting drafted in the 6th round and go on to have a terrific career.

Heart, desire to succeed, ability to understand the difference in the pro game and adapt accordingly, willingness to work on your deficiencies, improve your skating, study the game, recognize and incorporate the nuances...all intangibles that all scouts have difficulty in predicting.

16,000+ at an AHL game. Sounds like Hockeytown to me.

- MBFlyerfan

The pricing of the game didn't hurt either to get families in house.

There's zero need to argue. I think Grossmann's been bad most of the year and down right horrible for most of the last month. If someone disagrees, that's their opinion. It's not going to sway me.

I'd like to see Grossmann play better and I don't hate him. In fact, I like him, because he works his ass off and plays a tough, physical game and plays through injuries if he possibly can do so. I just don't think he's played well, overall. He's had a some good games, but he's also had some really bad ones. Worse, he's had some really good games where he made one really bad mistake and it cost the team.

I do feel part of the issue is usage and pairings, but it's really damning when the team gets outshot-on average- of nearly 3-1 when Grossmann is on the ice and when every single player on the roster has a worse Corsi & Fenwick ratings when on the ice with Grossmann.

No, Corsi and Fenwick are not the end all, be all, but they do a good job of indicating puck possession...and when Grossmann is on the ice, generally the Flyers don't have the puck.
- Jsaquella

I personally think Corsi and Fenwick is badly misused and doesn't come close to indicating anything close to that concerning Grossmann. It just simply can't eliminate all the variables involved, and isolate many, many other factors away from the situation to put it on Grossmann. Hockey is just too much of a team game.
I think there is definitely room for legitimate criticism towards Grossmann for some of his recent play. But overall, both for this Season and his tenure with the Flyers, he's been a solid 2nd pair defensive defenseman.
I have extensively reviewed both all of the goals that Grossmann that has been on the ice for, as well as all of the highlight videos that are available such as Save highlights on scoring chances against the Flyers, with Grossmann available. And it's not very often where you come away saying that Grossmann screwed up. He's not perfect, and there certainly are plays on both goals and scoring chances where Grossmann is culpable. But that should be expected in terms of both what level of defenseman, Grossmann is, and how the Flyers have played as a team overall. And the situations that Grossmann is placed in.
I also think that the situation Grossmann has played in, has led to some frustration. I think he sometimes tries to play outside of himself to make up for things, and he get's himself in trouble. When he simplifies his game, and plays within himself, he's a solid and effective defensive defensman. Grossmann has repeatedly been hung out to dry in the defensive zone all season long. More then any other player on this team with the exception of the goaltenders on this team. Bottom line, in my view. There's been a lot of criticism weighed towards Grossmann that is both unfair, and innacurate.

I like the Flyers D more with Mez and Gus in there than I dont.
I think they both bring something our D corps misses.
The obvious move to me is to try and get Timmo to a contender for a pick or some other asset.

I also think when Rinaldo plays like he has the last 2 he is a very important part of this team

Potential, ceilings, upsides...all words expressed by optimistic scouts and GM's based on projections. Some work out, others don't. The DNA makeup of the kid has as much to do with how he performs as a pro, and that's not easy to predict.

That's how the Tocchet's of the hockey world end up getting drafted in the 6th round and go on to have a terrific career.

Heart, desire to succeed, ability to understand the difference in the pro game and adapt accordingly, willingness to work on your deficiencies, improve your skating, study the game, recognize and incorporate the nuances...all intangibles that all scouts have difficulty in predicting.
- 77rams

No doubt about it. Even talent level of a player is sometimes missed. That's what makes it a crapshoot.

There's zero need to argue. I think Grossmann's been bad most of the year and down right horrible for most of the last month. If someone disagrees, that's their opinion. It's not going to sway me.

I'd like to see Grossmann play better and I don't hate him. In fact, I like him, because he works his ass off and plays a tough, physical game and plays through injuries if he possibly can do so. I just don't think he's played well, overall. He's had a some good games, but he's also had some really bad ones. Worse, he's had some really good games where he made one really bad mistake and it cost the team.

I do feel part of the issue is usage and pairings, but it's really damning when the team gets outshot-on average- of nearly 3-1 when Grossmann is on the ice and when every single player on the roster has a worse Corsi & Fenwick ratings when on the ice with Grossmann.

No, Corsi and Fenwick are not the end all, be all, but they do a good job of indicating puck possession...and when Grossmann is on the ice, generally the Flyers don't have the puck.
- Jsaquella

Aw come on i wanna watch a friggin argument with stayements that make sense!

Laughton's value should go up once he starts playing full time in the NHL. After some of the atrocious 4th lines we've rolled out this season I'm in no hurry to move him.
- Feanor

I'd much rather address the need on D than worry about our 4th line.

I'd much rather address the need on D than worry about our 4th line.
- hereticpride

As would I, especially in a salary cap environment. I'm fine with the 4th line as it is. I would love for the Flyers to add a veteran 4th line player along the lines of Lappariere, that would being both character and leadership to the team. But with needing to tweak the defense, I wouldn't take on that added cost.

I personally think Corsi and Fenwick is badly misused and doesn't come close to indicating anything close to that concerning Grossmann. It just simply can't eliminate all the variables involved, and isolate many, many other factors away from the situation to put it on Grossmann. Hockey is just too much of a team game.
I think there is definitely room for legitimate criticism towards Grossmann for some of his recent play. But overall, both for this Season and his tenure with the Flyers, he's been a solid 2nd pair defensive defenseman.
I have extensively reviewed both all of the goals that Grossmann that has been on the ice for, as well as all of the highlight videos that are available such as Save highlights on scoring chances against the Flyers, with Grossmann available. And it's not very often where you come away saying that Grossmann screwed up. He's not perfect, and there certainly are plays on both goals and scoring chances where Grossmann is culpable. But that should be expected in terms of both what level of defenseman, Grossmann is, and how the Flyers have played as a team overall. And the situations that Grossmann is placed in.
I also think that the situation Grossmann has played in, has led to some frustration. I think he sometimes tries to play outside of himself to make up for things, and he get's himself in trouble. When he simplifies his game, and plays within himself, he's a solid and effective defensive defensman. Grossmann has repeatedly been hung out to dry in the defensive zone all season long. More then any other player on this team with the exception of the goaltenders on this team. Bottom line, in my view. There's been a lot of criticism weighed towards Grossmann that is both unfair, and innacurate.
- MJL

All Corsi and Fenwick do is measure shots taken by a team when a player is on the ice vs how many the opposing team takes.

It's not calculus or magic. It's simply taking the number of shot attempts and coming up with a difference to measure possession. That's it. No voodoo. It takes an established set of stats (i.e shots, shot attempts, missed shots and blocked shots) and determines an easy number to show puck possession.

And yes, the Flyers problems are not just the defensemen alone. Far too often they have issues because the Forwards don't play a good 200 foot game and really don't provide enough help to the defensemen in transition.

However, the fact is, over 50+ games, the Flyers are facing a 3-1 shot attempt deficit when Grossmann is on the ice, and universally his teammates have worse possession stats when playing with Grossmann.

Yes, Grossmann is misused by the coaches. Part of that is because of the make up of the roster. But he doesn't play against the toughest competition-that's Timonen & Coburn.

Also, I don't see a guy playing outside his limits or trying to do too much as a good thing. In reality it's a symptom of his troubles. I'm not saying there's not a place for him, but he's struggled badly, especially over the last month or so.

I like the Flyers D more with Mez and Gus in there than I dont.
I think they both bring something our D corps misses.
The obvious move to me is to try and get Timmo to a contender for a pick or some other asset.

I also think when Rinaldo plays like he has the last 2 he is a very important part of this team
- opeth_pa

Honestly, outside of when he was injured, there's no good reason why Gustafsson hasn't been in the line-up.

Having a guy that can actually skate the puck out of his own end is sorely missing.

No doubt about it. Even talent level of a player is sometimes missed. That's what makes it a crapshoot.
- MJL

Exactly.....this is a critical time for Laughton.....by all accounts he has a Wonderful work ethic. That along with his skill level and intensity projects very well.....I honestly see a lot of Mike Richards in him.....not sure the offense will be the same, but he has all the tools......leadership, character and skill....no a bad package.
So much can happen in this league so you never know what his future is or if the Flyers feel there is a place for him next year? In the end though it's to early to tell what the Flyers have.

I'd much rather address the need on D than worry about our 4th line.
- hereticpride

Trading Laughton for a 23 year old AHL Dman should be a last resort. See if Phoenix want Downie first.

Grossmann is the worst defensemen on the team apart from Gill at playing the puck and getting it out of the zone. That is why his stats are so bad this year.

http://www.broadstreethoc...smann-analysis-bad-flyers