There's a frequent commenter here who has played against the kid who could probably answer that height question.

/sorry for forgetting your name, sir
- johndewar

I've never played against him, but I've seen him play a handful of times. He is VERY small, but is fast as can be and has a hell of a shot. Kinda like Briere, but without the 95-point season.

Edit: I also can't speak to the recklessness with his stick relative to Briere.

And what kind of return would you be happy with for these guys?
- jmatchett383

anything that helps with our future
i would hope we could get some young dman for timonen like we did for zhitnik
and for hartnell maybe a few picks

You want to put our 5th leading point producer on the 4th line?
- jmatchett383

with this team that's not saying much

anything that helps with our future
i would hope we could get some young dman for timonen like we did for zhitnik
and for hartnell maybe a few picks
- 2Real

I doubt Hartnell would waive his NTC. But I was talking about Timonen and Mez. Do you still want this mass overhaul to happen if they're firmly locked in the #2 spot int he division at the TDL?

with this team that's not saying much
- 2Real

Maybe not, but he's still producing more than 5 guys who you want playing more than him.

Yup
I'd rather miss the playoffs this year and even next, if I feel that we are building a team that will be a real contender in a few years. The last thing I want to see is a panic move to just squeak into the playoffs this season (where you can almost guarantee that they'd meet Pittsburgh or Boston and be done in one) that weakens the club in the long run.
- BiggE

Your not going to build a better team by doing nothing and just missing the playoffs for the next few seasons. Dont take the Toronto route. You either have to keep changing on the Fly and hope your moves work out, or you have to sell out your team and get top 5 picks for a few years.

The problem was the Bryzgalof trade. It altered the entire structure of the team. Whatever vision he had of the team was trashed in that acquisition.
- mayorofangrytown

Completely agree!

I think what happened is before Pronger went down, they were a very deep top 4 team on defense and very deep top 3 lines on offense but crappy goaltending.

Then they went and got Bryz, lost Pronger, Carle, Richards, and Carter. So the deep defense struggled and while the Goaltending got a bit better, it still wasnt enough to make up for the defense.

To top it all off, a lot of the forwards really over achieved that year, allowing Homer to thing the offense was better then it was... meaning he made a move to send an young offensive guy to cover for the defense. But as it turns out that didnt work out either.

IMO this team has just baffled everyone since Pronger went down, and Homer is making fixes, but they just seem to be futile.
- youarewrong

Pronger and Bryz definitely had a lot to do with screwing this team up, Pronger unavoidable, Bryzgalov completely avoidable. That signing displayed a complete shift in culture IMO, with a young bob in the wings along with the young core.

Completely agree!
- funmaster18

While I basically agree with your assessment, I think the better term is delayed. Before the trade, the Flyers were a legit contender. Now, we have some pieces to work with, but that expectation is at least a few more years away of building and putting back together.

While I basically agree with your assessment, I think the better term is delayed. Before the trade, the Flyers were a legit contender. Now, we have some pieces to work with, but that expectation is at least a few more years away of building and putting back together.
- Flyers_V88

Yes and I think once frick and frack were moved it was clear the team
Was setback in the short term, which is why I found the timing odd to go out and sign a veteran goalie to a huge deal and 10 year contract. I get they wanted to solidify that position, but I think patience was the way to go after moving frick and frack.

While I basically agree with your assessment, I think the better term is delayed. Before the trade, the Flyers were a legit contender. Now, we have some pieces to work with, but that expectation is at least a few more years away of building and putting back together.
- Flyers_V88

The second they made the Richards and Carter deals, they were deferring on some level.

They have some good pieces and parts, but not enough of them.

The problem was the Bryzgalof trade. It altered the entire structure of the team. Whatever vision he had of the team was trashed in that acquisition.
- mayorofangrytown

what bryzgalov trade?

what bryzgalov trade?
- -davies-

The one when they traded for his rights and then signed him? Or are we using selective memory now to cope

The one when they traded for his rights and then signed him? Or are we using selective memory now to cope
- funmaster18

lol...

Your not going to build a better team by doing nothing and just missing the playoffs for the next few seasons. Dont take the Toronto route. You either have to keep changing on the Fly and hope your moves work out, or you have to sell out your team and get top 5 picks for a few years.
- youarewrong

And I don't think the flyers are as far off from being a good team as some may think. They just need to be smart about how they proceed. IMO, they are too good to be bottom feeders long enough to make it worth it. They will suck at sucking like they sick at winning right now. Ahh the life of a mediocre hockey team.

While I basically agree with your assessment, I think the better term is delayed. Before the trade, the Flyers were a legit contender. Now, we have some pieces to work with, but that expectation is at least a few more years away of building and putting back together.
- Flyers_V88

Yea, I'm starting to lament those trades a bit. I mean is this team better now if they had Carter, Richards, Giroux, and JVR as thier top players? Maybe if they still have those guys they land Suter and Parise, or are able to trade JVR for Weber...

Pronger and Bryz definitely had a lot to do with screwing this team up, Pronger unavoidable, Bryzgalov completely avoidable. That signing displayed a complete shift in culture IMO, with a young bob in the wings along with the young core.
- funmaster18

They also stupidly dumped $5M into the bottom-pairing and went cheap in net after the 'Hawks beat them w/ superior depth and Niemi in the Finals. The Flyers having the highest-$ d-corps in the league can be traced back to that moment.

Not to mention they dumped a face-of-franchise/team-leader/good-soldier in Gagne and replaced him with Nik freakin' Zherdev.

They also stupidly dumped $5M into the bottom-pairing and went cheap in net after the 'Hawks beat them w/ superior depth and Niemi in the Finals. The Flyers having the highest-$ d-corps in the league can be traced back to that moment.

Not to mention they dumped a face-of-franchise/team-leader/good-soldier in Gagne and replaced him with Nik freakin' Zherdev.
- Tomahawk

Damn ruskies sabotaged this team

Yea, I'm starting to lament those trades a bit. I mean is this team better now if they had Carter, Richards, Giroux, and JVR as thier top players? Maybe if they still have those guys they land Suter and Parise, or are able to trade JVR for Weber...
- youarewrong

Sad part is, neither group would be winning the Cup.

All that money locked up in those forwards, and virtually no ELC players coming in... good luck with fitting a Cup-caliber team under the cap.

And I don't think the flyers are as far off from being a good team as some may think. They just need to be smart about how they proceed. IMO, they are too good to be bottom feeders long enough to make it worth it. They will suck at sucking like they sick at winning right now. Ahh the life of a mediocre hockey team.
- funmaster18

That is my point. If you know your too good for a full rebuild, then you have the make the right moves to make this team better, not just sit back and wait.

I don't care what management does: When you have season tickets starting at, what, $4/game (plus a free jersey), and can't sell out, that's bad. That's cheaper than an NLL game or Div. 3 college football game.
- jmatchett383

They are not that cheap.

They are not that cheap.
- Panthers88

Could you imagine!? lol. I hope Florida does well. If Tampa can thrive, so can you.

The only thing I can say is look at Chicago and Pittsburgh before Toews, Kane, Crosby, and Malkin. Buildings were empty. Heck, the Penguins were about to move. In some markets, it DOES take consistency.

Could you imagine!? lol. I hope Florida does well. If Tampa can thrive, so can you.
- Flyers_V88

They are not that cheap.
- Panthers88

Last year, season tix started at $192. Sadly, I divided by 48, not 24. So fine, $8 a ticket, on par with an NLL game or Div. 3 college football game...and a free jersey.