OK, a couple of things. Every team deals with key injuries. Heck, the Pens have had practically half their lineup out (far bigger names than Brian Strait!) and are still atop the division by a mile. I know...the Pens are the Pens. But go up and down the league and you'll find key injuries to critical players...some on teams comfortably in playoff positions right now and others right on the edge. So, some teams make excuses and others deal with that eventuality.

Yes, when you go into the season at the very edge of acceptability at the D and goaltending positions (if you want to call it that) while relying on the health of a 38-year-old goaltender and a 37-year-old defenseman as key parts of maintaining it all, injuries can have an impact. You could say that level of preparedness is really just asking for that "surprise" though.

And let's face it, we're not exactly talking about losing Malkin, or Letang, or Stamkos, or even Ward or Bobrovsky in net here. At least one position...D or goaltending...needed more attention than the Isles gave it, healthy or not.
- UIF

Tampa is a good example with the loss of Stamkos

I think Nabby was worse than Fleury but hey that's just me.
As far as not thinking we could have avoided that slump with a fully healthy team...wow...then you must really love Amac
- keaner17

I hate Amac but if you go back the past 5 years with this team it is the same cycle over and over again. Last year they did not play enough games for that cycle to begin.

Hey Tavares Okposo and Vanek have been beasts this year and so has Frans, De Haan has looked good and Hickey, but after that no much to talk about with this team. To much garbage taking up quality ice time, but it is the team Garth out together

And how did they do that? By staying on the forecheck for virtually the entirety of every game they played. It's a pace that you can't expect to keep up for 82 games, which is why you need a capable D and goaltender, or heck, at least one of the two, to make up for it when you can't score 4 goals in a game. I just think you're overstating the impact of the players injured. Vis was playing Monday night and they gave up six goals.

If I create an NHL team, and I have you, me and LGI as the top three d-men and Kasper in net, and the four of us get hurt and we lose every game, did we lose every game because four beer-leaguers got hurt (they were our top-three D and starting goalie!) or did we lose every game because four beer-leaguers were the best defense we threw out there to begin with?
- UIF

Not JUST staying on the forecheck. They did it by having fantastic chemistry on in their own zone. I repeatedly remarked last season how much the defensive zone play reminded me of the Red Wings, that our transitional play was fantastic, quick no look passes by the dmen to get out of jams where they seemingly knew where the other were at all times.

As for Vis returning and giving up six goals It was his first game back...Nabby still out...Hamonic still out....
I would counter your final comparison (which I don't think works), by saying...if we had lost Lubo, Hamonic, Strait and Nabby for more than half of last season, do you think we would have made the playoffs?

Tampa is a good example with the loss of Stamkos
- Cptmjl

Yeah and they still have an awesome team

The names are irrelevant, it's the roles that matter. You're losing #1,#2 and #3 for significant periods with your #1 goalie. Forget about whether we're talking Webber or Visnovsky, we're talking about the overall depth of any team. The age question applies to Nabby but Vis went out with a concussion, were not talking an age-sensitive injury here. There are only a handful of teams in this league that can sustain those losses and they are the ELITE teams. No one thought we were going to be an elite team not matter what this year. We expected to challenge for a top 3 spot in the division at best. A bubble team. Bubble teams don't lose those roles for extended periods and survive, especially with a coach who refuses to adjust.
- keaner17

The point is Snow had the foundation to make this not a bubble team. He spent money in other areas and didn't shore up the glaring holes where it was needed. Doesn't matter what excuses anyone can come up with. It's what happened.

Tampa is a good example with the loss of Stamkos
- Cptmjl

One player..and an offensive one at that.

Yeah and they still have an awesome team
- kasperrko

Precisely. Also took a basement team like ourselves and transformed it much quicker with a limited budget. Good example on all counts.

Yeah and they still have an awesome team
- kasperrko

Precisely. Also took a basement team like ourselves and transformed it much quicker with a limited budget. Good example on all counts.

Not JUST staying on the forecheck. They did it by having fantastic chemistry on in their own zone. I repeatedly remarked last season how much the defensive zone play reminded me of the Red Wings, that our transitional play was fantastic, quick no look passes by the dmen to get out of jams where they seemingly knew where the other were at all times.

As for Vis returning and giving up six goals It was his first game back...Nabby still out...Hamonic still out....
I would counter your final comparison (which I don't think works), by saying...if we had lost Lubo, Hamonic, Strait and Nabby for more than half of last season, do you think we would have made the playoffs?
- keaner17

Why does everyone think Strait is GOD. See the thing is we accept being average it was what we know. Strait is decent but lets face if he was such a great player he would not be on this team but still with the PEns

The point is Snow had the foundation to make this not a bubble team. He spent money in other areas and didn't shore up the glaring holes where it was needed. Doesn't matter what excuses anyone can come up with. It's what happened.
- Cptmjl

And I agree with that....there was never an arguement there. But for someone to say those injuries are merely excuses as to why the roster we sent out on day one failed to make the playoffs is silly.

It's a fact, IF this team did not sustain those injuries, I think we're at least 10-12 points better..AT LEAST. If that's the case, we're in.

Precisely. Also took a basement team like ourselves and transformed it much quicker with a limited budget. Good example on all counts.
- Cptmjl

Very good. When Stamkos went down I was like well there goes Tampa but nope they have a quality team with a great goalie. Who heard of Ben Bishop much before this year

One player..and an offensive one at that.
- keaner17

I don't have the time today to debate this nor do I want to but this is a bit silly. Your opinion and mine will never change. Let's just leave it at that.

Why does everyone think Strait is GOD. See the thing is we accept being average it was what we know. Strait is decent but lets face if he was such a great player he would not be on this team but still with the PEns
- kasperrko

No one said Strait was GOD. But on THIS team, he's a top four player and once he's out, your option is to play Hickey in that role. Hey, it'd be great to have seven top four dmen on this team, but that rarely happens anywhere. Guys like Hickey can fill that role for a game or two but I think 25-30 games is a bit much to ask.

Very good. When Stamkos went down I was like well there goes Tampa but nope they have a quality team with a great goalie. Who heard of Ben Bishop much before this year
- kasperrko

So if you take Bishop, Stamkos and St, Louis out for that same period..where do you think they are?

No one said Strait was GOD. But on THIS team, he's a top four player and once he's out, your option is to play Hickey in that role. Hey, it'd be great to have seven top four dmen on this team, but that rarely happens anywhere. Guys like Hickey can fill that role for a game or two but I think 25-30 games is a bit much to ask.
- keaner17

And there's your problem.

No one said Strait was GOD. But on THIS team, he's a top four player and once he's out, your option is to play Hickey in that role. Hey, it'd be great to have seven top four dmen on this team, but that rarely happens anywhere. Guys like Hickey can fill that role for a game or two but I think 25-30 games is a bit much to ask.
- keaner17

If we had the Kings defense this team would still have a higher ga average than most teams. The defense is a big problem but our biggest problem is coaching and goaltending. Until these two are fixed we will give up 4 goals a game on average.

And I agree with that....there was never an arguement there. But for someone to say those injuries are merely excuses as to why the roster we sent out on day one failed to make the playoffs is silly.

It's a fact, IF this team did not sustain those injuries, I think we're at least 10-12 points better..AT LEAST. If that's the case, we're in.
- keaner17

I don't agree. I think they had an impact but I say this team would've struggled to make the eighth seed with no injuries. What's the difference? All teams deal with injuries some of which are significant to elite players. It's part of an eighty two game season when you resign an injury prone 38 yr old goaltender. Again, doesn't matter what the reason is the fact is it wasn't done. Black and white.

So if you take Bishop, Stamkos and St, Louis out for that same period..where do you think they are?
- keaner17

To be honest I think they will still be in a playoff position. They have Stevie Y who would do something to make sure his team does not falter. Also they have a coach who knows how to use his teams skills. so I think they would be just fine to be honest

And how did they do that? By staying on the forecheck for virtually the entirety of every game they played. It's a pace that you can't expect to keep up for 82 games, which is why you need a capable D and goaltender, or heck, at least one of the two, to make up for it when you can't score 4 goals in a game. I just think you're overstating the impact of the players injured. Vis was playing Monday night and they gave up six goals.

If I create an NHL team, and I have you, me and LGI as the top three d-men and Kasper in net, and the four of us get hurt and we lose every game, did we lose every game because four beer-leaguers got hurt (they were our top-three D and starting goalie!) or did we lose every game because four beer-leaguers were the best defense we threw out there to begin with?
- UIF

Isles might as well have kept Mr. Go Go offense as coach. Cappy loves to push the offense just as much as Gordon. One guy was a goalie and one a dman. Go figure.

So if you take Bishop, Stamkos and St, Louis out for that same period..where do you think they are?
- keaner17

Nabakovs play bfr his injury was terrible. He was hurting us if anything.

I don't have the time today to debate this nor do I want to but this is a bit silly. Your opinion and mine will never change. Let's just leave it at that.
- Cptmjl

Agreed...
Look, my point is this:
I agree that Snow didn't upgrade positions to make this team BETTER.
However, i think it can be widely agreed that If Nabby starts the wealth of Poulins games.
If Visnovsky is playing Amacs role all season.
If Strait is playing Carkners/Martineks or even Hickey's role this season
and If Hamonic hasn't missed the last several games, at the very least we're flirting with third in our division.
It's not the leap we all wanted and Snow is responsible...but this team would have been there were it not for those injuries.

And there's your problem.
- UIF

It's what keeps us from being a top tier team, but we WERE a playoff team prior to those losses.

So essentially what everyone is saying here is that we'd be no further along in the standings without those injuries...Wow. Then Amac should be extended afterall!

It's what keeps us from being a top tier team, but we WERE a playoff team prior to those losses.

So essentially what everyone is saying here is that we'd be no further along in the standings without those injuries...Wow. Then Amac should be extended afterall!
- keaner17

Stop regardless of the injuries or not this team would be where they are. Again History repeats on this team year after year. November they just cant play hockey for some reason.

Give me a coach who is going to motivate this team no matter who they have on the ice and that team will be fine. Give me a coach who can use his teams strengths they will be fine. Jack has no clue what he is doing. Bailey and Regin should not even be on the ice to be honest. I rather see them bring up some kids. I am sure they will play with more heart

If we had the Kings defense this team would still have a higher ga average than most teams. The defense is a big problem but our biggest problem is coaching and goaltending. Until these two are fixed we will give up 4 goals a game on average.
- mighty13duck

Totally disagree with that. Poulin hasn't been good as of late, but a defense like that makes goaltending easy.

Agreed...
Look, my point is this:
I agree that Snow didn't upgrade positions to make this team BETTER.
However, i think it can be widely agreed that If Nabby starts the wealth of Poulins games.
If Visnovsky is playing Amacs role all season.
If Strait is playing Carkners/Martineks or even Hickey's role this season
and If Hamonic hasn't missed the last several games, at the very least we're flirting with third in our division.
It's not the leap we all wanted and Snow is responsible...but this team would have been there were it not for those injuries.
- keaner17

Are you going to the game today?