Agreed 100%
I still say Nabby was a fallback for plans that fell through. Otherwise his contract would have been extended earlier. I have to think there was SOMEONE mgmt had in their sights but ultimately couldn't get.
Hindsight is great and a few people did indeed call the disaster early on, though I think some would have yelled 'iceberg' no matter what we did.
Most teams in the league are thin at defense. Very few teams could sustain those losses and certainly with an inferior coach, we aren't one of them.
- keaner17

Let me say this good teams know how to win when injuries strike. It shows what your team is made of. This team is put together by gum and cardboard

Well, my hope was that we'd get a goaltender and top pairing dman. Acquiring the latter can often be a tall order, if not nearly impossible. So the fail would have been not finding someone that could at least play top four minutes.
I also felt that IF Nabby returned, we needed to start 60/40 Nabby over Poulin and gradually work to a 60/40 Poulin, giving us time to develop. Unfortunately we started with our typical 80/20 Nabby and then were forced to go 100% Poulin.

Coming into the season with THIS defense, I felt we'd have trouble, but wouldn't have a huge drop off from last season. However if you told me at the beginning of the year that Nabby would miss half the season and three of our top four dmen would miss SIGNIFICANT time, I'd tell you we were screwed. So in light of this teams present incarnation, injuries and all, yeah..we were doomed without those additions. I think there was never a real effort to IMPROVE the team as opposed to maintaining the status quo for another year.

This goes into my theory that we're simply biding time until Barclays. So a lot of this seasons failure falls on Garth since it's his job to make the team better, but the ultimate doom of this team was indeed the injuries to Lubo, Hamomic, Strait and Nabby. No team is going to lose their starting goalie and top two dmen for most of the season and look defensively sound, especially with Jack Capuano calling the shots.
So I agree that having a coach who was unable to adjust to the losses the team sustained and a GM who failed to plug the holes did little more than make everyone observers to a sinking ship.
- keaner17

OK, a couple of things. Every team deals with key injuries. Heck, the Pens have had practically half their lineup out (far bigger names than Brian Strait!) and are still atop the division by a mile. I know...the Pens are the Pens. But go up and down the league and you'll find key injuries to critical players...some on teams comfortably in playoff positions right now and others right on the edge. So, some teams make excuses and others deal with that eventuality.

Yes, when you go into the season at the very edge of acceptability at the D and goaltending positions (if you want to call it that) while relying on the health of a 38-year-old goaltender and a 37-year-old defenseman as key parts of maintaining it all, injuries can have an impact. You could say that level of preparedness is really just asking for that "surprise" though.

And let's face it, we're not exactly talking about losing Malkin, or Letang, or Stamkos, or even Ward or Bobrovsky in net here. At least one position...D or goaltending...needed more attention than the Isles gave it, healthy or not.

Let me say this good teams know how to win when injuries strike. It shows what your team is made of. This team is put together by gum and cardboard
- kasperrko

Well, let's put it this way:
If the Rangers were without Lundqvist, Girardi, Staal and McDonagh for more than half the season, do you honestly think they'd still be anywhere near the 59 points they have?
If Montreal, presently the #1 wild card team with 61pts, lost Price, Subban, Markov and Gorges that same period, would they really still be in the race?
The fact is, if you apply these losses to more than half of the present playoff teams, those injuries would likely drop them out of the playoff picture.

We know this coach is a tool, we know that PMB and Regin were fails. But I'd be pretty confident to say if Nabby, Visnovsky, Strait and Hamonic didn't miss the time they've missed we'd be at least 10-12 points better than we are now. If not 15+

OK, a couple of things. Every team deals with key injuries. Heck, the Pens have had practically half their lineup out (far bigger names than Brian Strait!) and are still atop the division by a mile. I know...the Pens are the Pens. But go up and down the league and you'll find key injuries to critical players...some on teams comfortably in playoff positions right now and others right on the edge. So, some teams make excuses and others deal with that eventuality.

Yes, when you go into the season at the very edge of acceptability at the D and goaltending positions (if you want to call it that) while relying on the health of a 38-year-old goaltender and a 37-year-old defenseman as key parts of maintaining it all, injuries can have an impact. You could say that level of preparedness is really just asking for that "surprise" though.

And let's face it, we're not exactly talking about losing Malkin, or Letang, or Stamkos, or even Ward or Bobrovsky in net here. At least one position...D or goaltending...needed more attention than the Isles gave it, healthy or not.
- UIF

The names are irrelevant, it's the roles that matter. You're losing #1,#2 and #3 for significant periods with your #1 goalie. Forget about whether we're talking Webber or Visnovsky, we're talking about the overall depth of any team. The age question applies to Nabby but Vis went out with a concussion, were not talking an age-sensitive injury here. There are only a handful of teams in this league that can sustain those losses and they are the ELITE teams. No one thought we were going to be an elite team not matter what this year. We expected to challenge for a top 3 spot in the division at best. A bubble team. Bubble teams don't lose those roles for extended periods and survive, especially with a coach who refuses to adjust.

The names are irrelevant, it's the roles that matter. You're losing #1,#2 and #3 for significant periods with your #1 goalie. Forget about whether we're talking Webber or Visnovsky, we're talking about the overall depth of any team. The age question applies to Nabby but Vis went out with a concussion, were not talking an age-sensitive injury here. There are only a handful of teams in this league that can sustain those losses and they are the ELITE teams. No one thought we were going to be an elite team not matter what this year. We expected to challenge for a top 3 spot in the division at best. A bubble team. Bubble teams don't lose those roles for extended periods and survive, especially with a coach who refuses to adjust.
- keaner17

this is 100% accurate...losing top 3 dmen for an extended period of time will significantly hurt the chances of a team making the playoffs. no ways around it.

Well, let's put it this way:
If the Rangers were without Lundqvist, Girardi, Staal and McDonagh for more than half the season, do you honestly think they'd still be anywhere near the 59 points they have?
If Montreal, presently the #1 wild card team with 61pts, lost Price, Subban, Markov and Gorges that same period, would they really still be in the race?
The fact is, if you apply these losses to more than half of the present playoff teams, those injuries would likely drop them out of the playoff picture.

We know this coach is a tool, we know that PMB and Regin were fails. But I'd be pretty confident to say if Nabby, Visnovsky, Strait and Hamonic didn't miss the time they've missed we'd be at least 10-12 points better than we are now. If not 15+
- keaner17

To me the Rangers are not as good as they seem they do have a good coach who can motivate them but the nucleus of that team is about where we are.

As for Montreal they are in the same boat. Another team that is not put together to great.

I am just sick of the excuses we give to this team. this team is horrible. Last year was a fluke and they are proving it this year. One can even argue this team is better than last year. We all knew at the beginning of the season we needed a solid back up goalie and a defenseman. Garth did nothing to address that. So this lays firmly on him and the clueless coach he has behind the bench. I have never seen a coach have a bromance with one of his players like he has with Amac. I never seen coach put his first line out against the other first line where you know your first line does not play great defense. Hands down he don't know how to coach and with a few adjustments with the coach we might be a better team

To me the Rangers are not as good as they seem they do have a good coach who can motivate them but the nucleus of that team is about where we are.

As for Montreal they are in the same boat. Another team that is not put together to great.

I am just sick of the excuses we give to this team. this team is horrible. Last year was a fluke and they are proving it this year. One can even argue this team is better than last year. We all knew at the beginning of the season we needed a solid back up goalie and a defenseman. Garth did nothing to address that. So this lays firmly on him and the clueless coach he has behind the bench. I have never seen a coach have a bromance with one of his players like he has with Amac. I never seen coach put his first line out against the other first line where you know your first line does not play great defense. Hands down he don't know how to coach and with a few adjustments with the coach we might be a better team
- kasperrko

1st bold: I'm not saying the Rangers or Montreal are great teams, but there in lies the comparision. The Isles are not a great team either. We are a bubble team. A team that would challenge for somewhere in the 6-8 range in the playoff race, much like the Rags and Montreal. So the comparison is quite reasonable.

2nd Bold: I don't agree that last year was a fluke at all, and I think for stretches, despite injuries, this team has shown that this season. The problem is we simply aren't deep enough to sustain the losses that have hit us and our coach SUCKS.

lastly, I agree that Garth failed by settling on players like Carkner, PMB, Regin, Nabby etc. But this team is quite talented up front and has some really good up and coming young dmen in de Haan and Hamonic. Visnovsky is still a legit top 4 guy who can do a hell of a job QBing the power play. I still say if Nabby, Vis, Strait and Hamonic remain healthy without missing extensive time, we're second in the division.

To me the Rangers are not as good as they seem they do have a good coach who can motivate them but the nucleus of that team is about where we are.

As for Montreal they are in the same boat. Another team that is not put together to great.

I am just sick of the excuses we give to this team. this team is horrible. Last year was a fluke and they are proving it this year. One can even argue this team is better than last year. We all knew at the beginning of the season we needed a solid back up goalie and a defenseman. Garth did nothing to address that. So this lays firmly on him and the clueless coach he has behind the bench. I have never seen a coach have a bromance with one of his players like he has with Amac. I never seen coach put his first line out against the other first line where you know your first line does not play great defense. Hands down he don't know how to coach and with a few adjustments with the coach we might be a better team
- kasperrko

dehaan was considered the fall back plan considering he wasnt going to make the team at the start of the season

the original defense pairings were:
hamonic-amac
vis-strait
hickey-donovan

carkner
dehaan in bridgeport

again, as its been said, if you lose 3 of your 4 top dman (mind you the 4th being AMAC), regardless of which team you play for, you are at a HUGE disadvantage.

dehaan was considered the fall back plan considering he wasnt going to make the team at the start of the season

the original defense pairings were:
hamonic-amac
vis-strait
hickey-donovan

carkner
dehaan in bridgeport

again, as its been said, if you lose 3 of your 4 top dman (mind you the 4th being AMAC), regardless of which team you play for, you are at a HUGE disadvantage.
- LetsGoIsles

Yet the isles are one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL and could of treaded water with a good goalie. A capable backup would of gone a Long way

Yet the isles are one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL and could of treaded water with a good goalie. A capable backup would of gone a Long way
- Isles316

I think that's debateable. Perhaps with an elite goaltender they could have stolen a few extra games but I don't see that many elite goaltenders out there and certainly none that wouldn't have cost you at least a combo of Strome, Pulock or Reinhart. So a mid tier goalie like Halak (who has had his own injury woes in the past) might have been the answer but I have my doubts he would have been a huge difference maker. The types of goals we're giving up more often than not are defensive lapses, due partly to dwindled personnel. The type of goals that leave goalies helpless.

Yet the isles are one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL and could of treaded water with a good goalie. A capable backup would of gone a Long way
- Isles316

the top 4 dmen were either injured or amac, i dont think any goalie could have been THAT much better. better? yes. 10-12 pts better? no chance

Yet the isles are one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL and could of treaded water with a good goalie. A capable backup would of gone a Long way
- Isles316

I totally agree there were some games that Poulin played that a decent back up would have won and we would not be having this discussion

dehaan was considered the fall back plan considering he wasnt going to make the team at the start of the season

the original defense pairings were:
hamonic-amac
vis-strait
hickey-donovan

carkner
dehaan in bridgeport

again, as its been said, if you lose 3 of your 4 top dman (mind you the 4th being AMAC), regardless of which team you play for, you are at a HUGE disadvantage.
- LetsGoIsles

Again one can argue though that even then this team could have succeeded. I have seen it plenty of times that teams have tread water and or fared decently with injuries. Nabby was our biggest injury and our record proves that[/img]

If that was the case which I don't think any of us have proof than you find a way to make it happen when you have a good young goaltender available and you're a team that has issues in net for years like the New York Islanders.
- Cptmjl

Not when the team with said goaltender wants what the OTHER team is offering. You can offer the stars & sky, but if they dont want it.. you cant make them take it.

XxNYIxX

Again one can argue though that even then this team could have succeeded. I have seen it plenty of times that teams have tread water and or fared decently with injuries. Nabby was our biggest injury and our record proves that
- kasperrko[/img]

Feel free to name me a team that lost it's top 3 defensemen and starting goaltender for more than half the season and went on to the playoffs (given Hamonic hasn't missed THAT much time). Then, is said team even comparable or is it a Penguins or Blackhawks type of elite team? No bubble team is likely to survive that...especially with Capuano.

Look, there's no question Garth made some big errors this season. He overestimated the abilities of Donovan, Regin, PMB and Poulin. I think most of us saw that coming with Regin, but at face value, if I told you at the begining of the season we had essentially the same team as last year and added Vanek over Moulson, I think most would have said it was going to be a hellova year.

I would not spend a dime on this team until Cappy is off the team and the other waste products who we all know is off the team
- kasperrko

You are going to save ALOT of money!

XxNYIxX

Feel free to name me a team that lost it's top 3 defensemen and starting goaltender for more than half the season and went on to the playoffs (given Hamonic hasn't missed THAT much time). Then, is said team even comparable or is it a Penguins or Blackhawks type of elite team? No bubble team is likely to survive that...especially with Capuano.

Look, there's no question Garth made some big errors this season. He overestimated the abilities of Donovan, Regin, PMB and Poulin. I think most of us saw that coming with Regin, but at face value, if I told you at the begining of the season we had essentially the same team as last year and added Vanek over Moulson, I think most would have said it was going to be a hellova year.
- keaner17

Not me cause like I said last year was a smoke screen of this team. I was proud of them making the playoffs and playing their hearts out during the playoffs, but come this year was the same problems with the same outcome with the same team. It is the same thing year in and year out and people just keep coming up the excuses for this team. This team is just not that good hands down. We have some pieces but the major pieces are missing. DEFENSE and GOALTENDING

You are going to save ALOT of money!

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

I already have. I was going to go to the game tonight with my brother but we both decided why bother freezing our butts off for this team.

any team that has a line of Regin, Bailey and Nielson is a joke in my book. that has to be the worse line in hockey and Nielson does not deserve that.

Amac worse defenseman going as well. It is time this team gets rid of the trash. I rather see Donovan, De Haan, Hickey, Vis, Strait and Carkner play even Martinek. At least we would cut down on the turnovers and I am sure they will hit the net more than him

The names are irrelevant, it's the roles that matter. You're losing #1,#2 and #3 for significant periods with your #1 goalie. Forget about whether we're talking Webber or Visnovsky, we're talking about the overall depth of any team. The age question applies to Nabby but Vis went out with a concussion, were not talking an age-sensitive injury here. There are only a handful of teams in this league that can sustain those losses and they are the ELITE teams. No one thought we were going to be an elite team not matter what this year. We expected to challenge for a top 3 spot in the division at best. A bubble team. Bubble teams don't lose those roles for extended periods and survive, especially with a coach who refuses to adjust.
- keaner17

No, the names are very relevant. If you're counting on Brian Strait as a critical member of your D, then you are in trouble before an injury even occurs. You can't really say it's because of the injuries after that. Other teams use Brian Straits to admirably step into a bigger role or to fill in when injuries occur. The D was shaky...I'd say bad but we can say "borderline" if that's what you're arguing...before the first injury even happened.

And regardless of the cause of the injury, relying on a 38 and 37 year old surrounded by castoffs and rookies (and, granted, Hamonic, who certainly doesn't fit those categories) is risky. And back to the names, we're not talking about older players with storied careers like Brodeur and Lidstrom. I think Nabby and Vis are OK, but they're players that need more support than the Isles gave them before the first player went down.

In the past, this team made the injury excuse virtually every year when lack of talent at key positions was the real issue, until 2011-2012 happened, and it was a bottom-5 finish with very few injuries. If our playoff hopes rest on Brian Strait staying healthy, then those hopes are a very long shot to begin with, and that's more of the problem than him getting injured for a small handful of games.

No, the names are very relevant. If you're counting on Brian Strait as a critical member of your D, then you are in trouble before an injury even occurs. You can't really say it's because of the injuries after that. Other teams use Brian Straits to admirably step into a bigger role or to fill in when injuries occur. The D was shaky...I'd say bad but we can say "borderline" if that's what you're arguing...before the first injury even happened.

And regardless of the cause of the injury, relying on a 38 and 37 year old surrounded by castoffs and rookies (and, granted, Hamonic, who certainly doesn't fit those categories) is risky. And back to the names, we're not talking about older players with storied careers like Brodeur and Lidstrom. I think Nabby and Vis are OK, but they're players that need more support than the Isles gave them before the first player went down.

In the past, this team made the injury excuse virtually every year when lack of talent at key positions was the real issue, until 2011-2012 happened, and it was a bottom-5 finish with very few injuries. If our playoff hopes rest on Brian Strait staying healthy, then those hopes are a very long shot to begin with, and that's more of the problem than him getting injured for a small handful of games.
- UIF

Exactly!! Bryan Strait did not make the Penguins for a reason, on any other team he is probably in the AHL. Same goes for Hickey. We set ourselves up for this and we all know the Islanders defense get hurt constantly

Not me cause like I said last year was a smoke screen of this team. I was proud of them making the playoffs and playing their hearts out during the playoffs, but come this year was the same problems with the same outcome with the same team. It is the same thing year in and year out and people just keep coming up the excuses for this team. This team is just not that good hands down. We have some pieces but the major pieces are missing. DEFENSE and GOALTENDING
- kasperrko

This team went on a damn fine run last year and outplayed arguably the best team in the league (some were calling the best since 1992) in the playoffs. The media was raving about it, including the Pens players after the series talking about how good they were going to be.
The wheels fell off when our power play QB and #1 dman went out with a concussion and then Strait, our most physical dman went out. Suddenly we lose our goaltender, who like him or not was a huge part of our run last year too.

I wanted an upgrade on Nabby but I'd go as far as to say, add Vis, Strait and Nabby back into the mix during that 10 game losing streak and we come out at least 10pts better. At least.

This team went on a damn fine run last year and outplayed arguably the best team in the league (some were calling the best since 1992) in the playoffs. The media was raving about it, including the Pens players after the series talking about how good they were going to be.
The wheels fell off when our power play QB and #1 dman went out with a concussion and then Strait, our most physical dman went out. Suddenly we lose our goaltender, who like him or not was a huge part of our run last year too.

I wanted an upgrade on Nabby but I'd go as far as to say, add Vis, Strait and Nabby back into the mix during that 10 game losing streak and we come out at least 10pts better. At least.
- keaner17

Sorry don't believe that. this team every year goes through that slump no matter who is hurt or who is playing. This team is a broken record.

Like I said they did play amazing during the playoffs (I think we should thank Fleury though). Lets be honest a better goalie we might not be even having this discussion.

No, the names are very relevant. If you're counting on Brian Strait as a critical member of your D, then you are in trouble before an injury even occurs. You can't really say it's because of the injuries after that. Other teams use Brian Straits to admirably step into a bigger role or to fill in when injuries occur. The D was shaky...I'd say bad but we can say "borderline" if that's what you're arguing...before the first injury even happened.

And regardless of the cause of the injury, relying on a 38 and 37 year old surrounded by castoffs and rookies (and, granted, Hamonic, who certainly doesn't fit those categories) is risky. And back to the names, we're not talking about older players with storied careers like Brodeur and Lidstrom. I think Nabby and Vis are OK, but they're players that need more support than the Isles gave them before the first player went down.

In the past, this team made the injury excuse virtually every year when lack of talent at key positions was the real issue, until 2011-2012 happened, and it was a bottom-5 finish with very few injuries. If our playoff hopes rest on Brian Strait staying healthy, then those hopes are a very long shot to begin with, and that's more of the problem than him getting injured for a small handful of games.
- UIF

1st bold: we'll have to agree to disagree there. The names are not as relevant as the roles because those roles being vacated is what ultimately asks Andrew MacDonald to quarterback your power play. It also asks him to be a 30 minute a night player, it causes Carkner to hit the ice night in and night out. It makes Kevin Poulin, an unproven goaltender see a wealth of games. Point being, even if we had Webber go out as compared to Vis, the fact is that #1 role is vacated and you're putting less suitable players in that role. For that reason, it's about the role, not the name. This doesn't obsolve Garth of anything, it simply states that last years team + Vanek would have given some cause for optimism. However if you then added, well...Vis, Nabby, Strait and Hamonic will all miss significant time, I think it would be widely anticipated that we'd be in trouble.

2nd bold: Our playoff hopes did not rely on Brian Strait remaining healthy, however it did rely on your starting goaltender and top three defensemen staying healthy. Again, I challenge anyone to show me a team who's sustained those losses and gone on to the playoffs.

This team went on a damn fine run last year and outplayed arguably the best team in the league (some were calling the best since 1992) in the playoffs. The media was raving about it, including the Pens players after the series talking about how good they were going to be.
The wheels fell off when our power play QB and #1 dman went out with a concussion and then Strait, our most physical dman went out. Suddenly we lose our goaltender, who like him or not was a huge part of our run last year too.

I wanted an upgrade on Nabby but I'd go as far as to say, add Vis, Strait and Nabby back into the mix during that 10 game losing streak and we come out at least 10pts better. At least.
- keaner17

And how did they do that? By staying on the forecheck for virtually the entirety of every game they played. It's a pace that you can't expect to keep up for 82 games, which is why you need a capable D and goaltender, or heck, at least one of the two, to make up for it when you can't score 4 goals in a game. I just think you're overstating the impact of the players injured. Vis was playing Monday night and they gave up six goals.

If I create an NHL team, and I have you, me and LGI as the top three d-men and Kasper in net, and the four of us get hurt and we lose every game, did we lose every game because four beer-leaguers got hurt (they were our top-three D and starting goalie!) or did we lose every game because four beer-leaguers were the best defense we threw out there to begin with?

Sorry don't believe that. this team every year goes through that slump no matter who is hurt or who is playing. This team is a broken record.

Like I said they did play amazing during the playoffs (I think we should thank Fleury though). Lets be honest a better goalie we might not be even having this discussion.
- kasperrko

I think Nabby was worse than Fleury but hey that's just me.
As far as not thinking we could have avoided that slump with a fully healthy team...wow...then you must really love Amac