How many Chara's are out there? Even Thorton, who is everybody's poster boy for the quintessential enforcer who can still play. I am sure the Leafs, and every team out there would love to have those guys...the truth is that not many of them exist. So you have to go with the next best thing.

The Leafs especially need an enforcer. Their top 6 guys are smaller skilled less physical players. JVR, Kessel, Bozak, Kadri, Raymond and Lupul are not intimidating anyone in the physical department. Realistically, the Leafs are not going to change that top 6 in any major way anytime soon, so they need the enforcer on the team to keep the other teams honest.
- vermie22

Ive got two Chara's growing in my backyard.

wht is tj brennan

we need to see this kid play
- IRON.MAIDEN

leftie.

and agreed.

Here is my take on the raging goon debate.

Under RW the Leafs were abused and pushed around. Teams took way too many liberties in scrums after the whistles, or cheap shots while players were changing.

RC came in, put both Orr and McClaren in the lineup, and preached team toughness. Last season other teams seemed to take this a challenge, and Orr and McClaren took care of business to let them know otherwise.

This season, teams are taking a different approach, and not engaging the tough guys. But guess what, the cheap shots and scrums have also stopped. If you replace Orr or McClaren with the likes of Ashton/Damigo/Bodie...the antics will eventually start again...maybe not right away, but they will.
- vermie22

Perhaps you're right. That's why you keep Orr or McLaren in the press box until/unless you need them. Otherwise, a quick, hard hitting energy 4th line is much more valuable.

How many Chara's are out there? Even Thorton, who is everybody's poster boy for the quintessential enforcer who can still play. I am sure the Leafs, and every team out there would love to have those guys...the truth is that not many of them exist. So you have to go with the next best thing.

The Leafs especially need an enforcer. Their top 6 guys are smaller skilled less physical players. JVR, Kessel, Bozak, Kadri, Raymond and Lupul are not intimidating anyone in the physical department. Realistically, the Leafs are not going to change that top 6 in any major way anytime soon, so they need the enforcer on the team to keep the other teams honest.
- vermie22

i am in total agreement... been preaching the same thing.... some find it soo much easier just to say get rid of orr. they don't see the intangibles or the facts. it's all about their opinion.

i just said chara because someone was using him as an example of the type of tough guy you want fighting instead of orr... it's quite comical how much worse that would be, yet the poster doesnt see it that way.

Bi-Polar nation
- CanadianBodmon

Some prefer debate over arguing.

i thinking fighting still has a role in hockey

there are some flower children around who do not
- Dozzer

I don't think the goon argument actually equates to 'flower children' wanting to get rid of fighting outright.. in all cases.

getting rid of the soupcans who do nothing 3 minutes a night other than flip the mitts doesn't exactly rid the sport of fighting.. it resets the bar to people wanting to fight actually having to require some skill as well.

apparently you missed all the photoshopping last night...
- IRON.MAIDEN

That was (frank)ing funny

I looked at that and looked at who was actually playing and found 10 teams with what I would call enforcers - guys whose only role is to fight.

I am not anti-fighting and I am certainly not anti-tough. I just don't think that having Colton Orr on your team makes you tough or protects your skilled players.

I'm sorry that my having a different opinion is so upsetting. Wanna go?
- Canada Cup

the convo is stupid not your point of view lol

i think one thing.. you think another.. we arent going to change each others minds anytime soon either lol.. hence.. stupid.

and okay...

*drop gloves*

oh.. mind taking my helmet off for me before we start? since we're not allowed to do that ourselves anymore.

Ive got two Chara's growing in my backyard.
- Fakepartofme

No damage during the ice storm?

they want to stop stupid injuries from happening.. lose the instigator penalty

let the players police themselves.
- Dozzer

Injuries will always happen.
The instigator penalty has completely backfired and should be removed.
Its horrible...I cant believe they havent yet.

No damage during the ice storm?
- Woderwick

Nah, they grew more during it!

Some prefer debate over arguing.
- Woderwick

not a debate when the rebuttal is

"im done with this stupid convo"

That was (frank)ing funny
- walshyleafsfan

top gun kessel was my fav.

Injuries will always happen.
The instigator penalty has completely backfired and should be removed.
Its horrible...I cant believe they havent yet.
- Fakepartofme

i know that about injuries..

but i dont think guys would be so quick to run a guy, or goalie, if they knew they couldnt hide behind the instigator penalty

go back to the old way.. 5mins for fighting and if someone instigates.. give them an extra 2

the convo is stupid not your point of view lol

i think one thing.. you think another.. we arent going to change each others minds anytime soon either lol.. hence.. stupid.

and okay...

*drop gloves*

oh.. mind taking my helmet off for me before we start? since we're not allowed to do that ourselves anymore.


- Dozzer

Helmet? is that the new word for those things? I'll pass thanks.

Guys it's pretty clear that the era of the goon is ending and the Leafs need to drop Orr and Macleran right away.

not a debate when the rebuttal is

"im done with this stupid convo"
- IRON.MAIDEN

I've seen plenty of debates end in FRANK YOU!! NO FRANK YOU!

wht is tj brennan

we need to see this kid play
- IRON.MAIDEN

Look at his shot totals compared to rest of team

I don't think the goon argument actually equates to 'flower children' wanting to get rid of fighting outright.. in all cases.

getting rid of the soupcans who do nothing 3 minutes a night other than flip the mitts doesn't exactly rid the sport of fighting.. it resets the bar to people wanting to fight actually having to require some skill as well.
- joel878

and i would like to see it go back to the old way

where if you act like a douche on the ice you would get pummelled.

apparently you missed all the photoshopping last night...
- IRON.MAIDEN

I did, now I have to go back and check them out...way to give me an excuse to procrastinate at work even more.

Guys it's pretty clear that the era of the goon is ending and the Leafs need to drop Orr and Macleran right away.
- sanfordnson

What would you know about building a successful hockey team?

Guys it's pretty clear that the era of the goon is ending and the Leafs need to drop Orr and Macleran right away.
- sanfordnson

Nah, one or the other. Dropping Orr in my opinion. Only play McLaren against Boston and the other goon squad teams.

Guys it's pretty clear that the era of the goon is ending and the Leafs need to drop Orr and Macleran right away.
- sanfordnson

Of the two, the Leafs need to keep Mac....or I guess Mc

I've seen plenty of debates end in FRANK YOU!! NO FRANK YOU!
- Woderwick

(frank) you.

top gun kessel was my fav.
- IRON.MAIDEN

Yep. That was professionally done. I loved the last one from dearth? Squirrel over kessel.