are you seriously suggesting that spezza has been a better player then turris or zibby this year?

both those players are improving, at almost a game to game pace..........while spezza has one good game and then 5 bad ones, is older and broken, and unlikely to regain his previous form.

accepting the truth isn't hate, it's just truth.

i would love spezza to regain his form.......the depth and skill at center in ottawa would be RIDICULOUS.......but i just can't see it happening.

I'm not saying he's gonna suck, he'll still be a productive player, but he's gonna wanna get paid like a top line center, and the fact is that he is not playing close to that level.
- sensarmy_11

Turris has been the most consistent centre on this team this year. He and Spezza have very similar points per game with Spezza playing 5 less games. Zibby looks great, but has had consistency/opportunity issues. Spezza and Turris are clearly this teams best two centres. Zibby is getting there, but he has also been guilty of being invisible some nights. That's mainly due to making the NHL adjustment.

Turris has had the privilege of playing with this teams two top wingers all year. That is a testament to his play. However, you can't ignore Spezza's quality of wingers either. Turris is this teams most consistent centre, no doubt. But you have to look at Spezza's improved play. Lately he has been creating a lot of chances. Just a matter of time before he hits some 3 point games.

This reminds me why he was chosen as captain...Because he's the only player that has the experience to hear unappreciative fans and he takes all the heat and NEVER NEVER complained. That is also why there is no chance someone like you would be part of the organization, even selling pizza!
- PtotheY

i'm quite happy with my current job, thank you.

and why, all of a sudden, can't we criticize the highest paid player on the team, when he plays like crap?

yes, he scored a goal last night...........WOOOOHOOOOOOOO.............doesn't negate the fact that he's not having a good year, and has been a disaster in his own end (look at travis' numbers, they don't lie).

and why does criticizing a player mean a fan is unappreciative? so does that mean that EVERY SINGLE TIME i read any negative comment you make about any player on this team, i can call you an unappreciative fan.

i'm simply pointing out the fact that, given where spezza's game is at now, his age, injury history, salary (both current and upcoming), perhaps it's time to start exploring other options.

I like spezza, but i'm a SENATORS fan first and foremost, which means i want what is best for the team overall, regardless of whether or not it means a player i like leaves. any shred of loyalty i had for individual players walked out the door at the same time alfredsson did, now i only care about the team.

This reminds me why he was chosen as captain...Because he's the only player that has the experience to hear unappreciative fans and he takes all the heat and NEVER NEVER complained. That is also why there is no chance someone like you would be part of the organization, even selling pizza!
- PtotheY

i'm quite happy with my current job, thank you.

and why, all of a sudden, can't we criticize the highest paid player on the team, when he plays like crap?

yes, he scored a goal last night...........WOOOOHOOOOOOOO.............doesn't negate the fact that he's not having a good year, and has been a disaster in his own end (look at travis' numbers, they don't lie).

and why does criticizing a player mean a fan is unappreciative? so does that mean that EVERY SINGLE TIME i read any negative comment you make about any player on this team, i can call you an unappreciative fan.

i'm simply pointing out the fact that, given where spezza's game is at now, his age, injury history, salary (both current and upcoming), perhaps it's time to start exploring other options.

I like spezza, but i'm a SENATORS fan first and foremost, which means i want what is best for the team overall, regardless of whether or not it means a player i like leaves. any shred of loyalty i had for individual players walked out the door at the same time alfredsson did, now i only care about the team.

i was with you until you said "best 2nd line center in the leauge"

malkin, pavelski, krejci, sharp, o'reilly, backes, etc.....

turris is great, but i would say he's far from being the best 2nd line center in the league............so far. maybe i'd put him in the top 10.

that being said, he's better then some teams top line centers (leafs, flames, sabres, jackets, preds, yotes) so who knows.
- sensarmy_11

Name me three better second line centers. Bonafide 2nds.

You'd be hard pressed. And remember , he is logging 1st line minutes.

Name me three better second line centers. Bonafide 2nds.

You'd be hard pressed. And remember , he is logging 1st line minutes.
- BodyCheckRadio

please explain what makes a player a "bonafide" 2nd line center? To me, it's a guy who plays on the 2nd line.

I named six guys in my post that you quoted

I love turris, maybe my favorite player on the team right now, and i have him in my hockey pool (12th round, SWEET). but i think it's a little premature to annoint him "best 2nd line center in the league"

i think its a lot more complicated then that. most of the arguments re: trading spezza are taking a more nuanced look at the issue... ie. taking in consideration his expiring contract, anticipating the cost and length of a new contract, the regression of his play, his injury history, looking at our emerging depth at center, etc. i get that you like the guy, but i don't think it is adequate to suggest we just want to trade him bc we are "spezza haters".


- sen_smile

HATER!!!!!

found this on google. almost died

HATER!!!!!

found this on google. almost died


- sensarmy_11

i think its a lot more complicated then that. most of the arguments re: trading spezza are taking a more nuanced look at the issue... ie. taking in consideration his expiring contract, anticipating the cost and length of a new contract, the regression of his play, his injury history, looking at our emerging depth at center, etc. i get that you like the guy, but i don't think it is adequate to suggest we just want to trade him bc we are "spezza haters".


- sen_smile

I understand that view. I don't dispute that train of thought. I dispute that he "looks like crap" , "only negative things happen when he is on the ice" remarks. They may have been true in October and November, but are not now.

I suggest you look at the thread of yesterdays blog. Spezza was the best forward for the Sens last night, but gets bashed like Jared Cowen scoring on his own goal.

It wasn't only one game. He has looked good since coming back from injury. You have to give the guy a little bit of credit here and there. I am not even satisfied by his overall play. I think he can be much better. However, he is slowly improving the last month or so.

It wasn't only one game. He has looked good since coming back from injury. You have to give the guy a little bit of credit here and there. I am not even satisfied by his overall play. I think he can be much better. However, he is slowly improving the last month or so.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

i think he played better last game as well. he had lots of shots, a goal and was definitely someone whom the caps needed to pay attention to all night.

but, that doesnt change my opinion on wanting to trade him... because of the reasons i've mentioned previously, again and again. other people have mentioned more nuanced reasons for expressing a desire to trade him as well. sure, you get both angles, but i wouldnt suggest that everyone saying to trade spezza is a spezza hater.

i understand the desire to keep spezza. but for me, its like holding on to something based on inflated value, and not considering other factors. however, there's a counter-argument to that too, as with everything. i just don't think that this makes me spezza-hater.

I understand that view. I don't dispute that train of thought. I dispute that he "looks like crap" , "only negative things happen when he is on the ice" remarks. They may have been true in October and November, but are not now.

I suggest you look at the thread of yesterdays blog. Spezza was the best forward for the Sens last night, but gets bashed like Jared Cowen scoring on his own goal.

It wasn't only one game. He has looked good since coming back from injury. You have to give the guy a little bit of credit here and there. I am not even satisfied by his overall play. I think he can be much better. However, he is slowly improving the last month or so.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I admit that he's looked better lately, A LITTLE better.............but when your name is jason spezza, you make 7+ mil a year, and you have 3 goals and are a -8 in the last 2 months........some criticism is VERY justified.

my biggest concern with spezza is not the points, he's gonna get his PP time, and while he probably wont' be a PPG player, he'll still put up points......albeit, somewhat inconsistently.

my concern with spezza is his play outside the offensive zone. prior to this year, i was amazed how much spezza had improved his 200ft game.....he was great in the NZ and DZ, solid on the PK, and I felt comfortable watching him in any situation. however this year, it seems like he's taken 437 steps backwards in his 200ft game. so, in those games where he isn't scoring, IMO, he hurts the team with his boneheaded defensive play.

if you get paid what he does, and you aren't gonna be putting up big points game in and game out....then you better be bringing it in other ways

just my opinion

Apparently theres talks of going after Moulson? I'm quite opposed tot his, as it would cost a fair amount, and theres a good chance he'll walk at the end of the year.

Damn Budget...

Apparently theres talks of going after Moulson? I'm quite opposed tot his, as it would cost a fair amount, and theres a good chance he'll walk at the end of the year.

Damn Budget...
- david22

my assumption would be either he would have to be signed prior to a trade OR the sens would at least have an idea they could sign him at whatever $...im assuming he would be wanting 5-6 mil per? which seems like a lot...he can score, but still scary to know what he can do away from tavares full time.....and I have no idea what kind of numbers he has with buffalo..

I understand that view. I don't dispute that train of thought. I dispute that he "looks like crap" , "only negative things happen when he is on the ice" remarks. They may have been true in October and November, but are not now.

I suggest you look at the thread of yesterdays blog. Spezza was the best forward for the Sens last night, but gets bashed like Jared Cowen scoring on his own goal.

It wasn't only one game. He has looked good since coming back from injury. You have to give the guy a little bit of credit here and there. I am not even satisfied by his overall play. I think he can be much better. However, he is slowly improving the last month or so.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

i have said a couple times spezza has looked better over the past 4-6 games and have mostly been torched by everyone else...i still think the team is better with him in the lineup,he needs time to heal up and work with the C...it also hasnt helped that they have literally no one to play with him...hard for him to make stuff happen playing with Smith and Condra...and i like both those guys, but they arent exactly complimentary players to spezza.....just sucks with stone getting injured, him and spezza were looking good together!

And not suprisingly Da Costa was basically invisible..i dont think i heard his name mentioned once all game...i barely noticed his giant head..


lastly here is my random crazy playoff prediction...sens will catch and pass the habs....montreal will miss the playoffs...

Apparently theres talks of going after Moulson? I'm quite opposed tot his, as it would cost a fair amount, and theres a good chance he'll walk at the end of the year.

Damn Budget...
- david22

have there been any indications of what the sabres would want?

obviously we don't have a first, so we'd be talking prospects....or young roster players.

i can't imagine ottawa would be willing to part with anyone of significance in the nhl right now

i think, in terms of acquiring a rental, the untouchables would be:

lazar, karlsson, methot, cowen, ceci, turris, ryan, mac, spezza, stone, smith, and zibby (have a feeling i'm missing someone)

i would be comfortable with a package of any 2-3 other assets for a rental of that quality......something like conacher, puempel, and maybe throw in a conditional draft pick (if they can re-sign him)

i have said a couple times spezza has looked better over the past 4-6 games and have mostly been torched by everyone else...i still think the team is better with him in the lineup,he needs time to heal up and work with the C...it also hasnt helped that they have literally no one to play with him...hard for him to make stuff happen playing with Smith and Condra...and i like both those guys, but they arent exactly complimentary players to spezza.....just sucks with stone getting injured, him and spezza were looking good together!

And not suprisingly Da Costa was basically invisible..i dont think i heard his name mentioned once all game...i barely noticed his giant head..


lastly here is my random crazy playoff prediction...sens will catch and pass the habs....montreal will miss the playoffs...
- TheMike12

this is the thing that irks me with the whole spezza argument.....

he's been given a chance to play with ryan and had no chemistry, and the same with michalek.

a player like spezza should be making other players better.....not require better players to make him good.

it's hard to justify having a 7 mil center, who needs elite wingers to be a good player.

have there been any indications of what the sabres would want?

obviously we don't have a first, so we'd be talking prospects....or young roster players.

i can't imagine ottawa would be willing to part with anyone of significance in the nhl right now

i think, in terms of acquiring a rental, the untouchables would be:

lazar, karlsson, methot, cowen, ceci, turris, ryan, mac, spezza, stone, smith, and zibby (have a feeling i'm missing someone)

i would be comfortable with a package of any 2-3 other assets for a rental of that quality......something like conacher, puempel, and maybe throw in a conditional draft pick (if they can re-sign him)
- sensarmy_11

The good (or bad) news would have to be the fact that Tim Murray knows our young prospects pretty well. He knows what he will be getting in return if he opts for prospects. but if we are going for a forward (?) and not a #2 d-man (!) then i would have to guess we would be losing a roster player too. Turris line is set and im assuming they would want moulson to play with spezza, enough tho him and zibanejad would compliment each other fairly well. But we will have to wait and see if Buffalo is going to break things apart and trade players.

this is the thing that irks me with the whole spezza argument.....

he's been given a chance to play with ryan and had no chemistry, and the same with michalek.

a player like spezza should be making other players better.....not require better players to make him good.

it's hard to justify having a 7 mil center, who needs elite wingers to be a good player.
- sensarmy_11

at the same time tho - spezza had a great season with Milo and greening on his wings, 34 goals and 84 points and neither I would claim to be elite. I think Spezza is hurt still from his back - and his hip ( i think that was is injury this season)

this is the thing that irks me with the whole spezza argument.....

he's been given a chance to play with ryan and had no chemistry, and the same with michalek.

a player like spezza should be making other players better.....not require better players to make him good.

it's hard to justify having a 7 mil center, who needs elite wingers to be a good player.
- sensarmy_11

yeah I can totally see both sides of the argument for sure, my small point is, a lot of the players he been with this season just dont have the ability to do anything with spezza...hes played with almost the whole team, and had really limited look with Ryan, him and michalek play relatively well together but again i would argue michalek is just now starting to look better...

its a tough call because of what he is paid...i still believe he makes the team better, but I can see where the critism comes from...at this point i definitely want him to be better, but i can see him getting better from game to game which to be me is a positive...he will never be awesome in the D zone..

i feel like i argued with myself in a circle just now

this is the thing that irks me with the whole spezza argument.....

he's been given a chance to play with ryan and had no chemistry, and the same with michalek.

a player like spezza should be making other players better.....not require better players to make him good.

it's hard to justify having a 7 mil center, who needs elite wingers to be a good player.
- sensarmy_11

thats exactly it. its not like he hasnt had opportunities to play with highly skilled players.

at the same time tho - spezza had a great season with Milo and greening on his wings, 34 goals and 84 points and neither I would claim to be elite. I think Spezza is hurt still from his back - and his hip ( i think that was is injury this season)
- since93

that's my point.....he made those guys better. so why, all of a sudden, can we blame his poor play (relatively speaking) on the fact that he doesn't have high calibre guys to play with.

i mean hell, he was given ryan as a winger (don't get much better than that) and it didn't work.

and i agree, i think part of the problem is that he isn't 100%.....but given the types of injuries, i'm not convinced that he'll EVER be 100% again. is that the guy we want our GM to invest BIG money and LONG years in?

that's my point.....he made those guys better. so why, all of a sudden, can we blame his poor play (relatively speaking) on the fact that he doesn't have high calibre guys to play with.

i mean hell, he was given ryan as a winger (don't get much better than that) and it didn't work.

and i agree, i think part of the problem is that he isn't 100%.....but given the types of injuries, i'm not convinced that he'll EVER be 100% again. is that the guy we want our GM to invest BIG money and LONG years in?
- sensarmy_11

The "he doesn't have guys to play with" argument can be a weak argument. I do agree. To some extent. Spezza has produced to about the same point per game despite not playing on this teams "top line". That to me shows he can play with anyone. I think people are more gunning for better suitors so he can increase his already decent production. Not all guys are going to gel on the ice. This isn't video game hockey. Spezza may appear to not be gelling with anyone at the moment, but is still producing.

His defence play will always be lacklustre. That shouldn't surprise people. His start to the year in that respect was much worse than it is currently. Hell the whole team sucked on defence at the beginning of the year. We give Karlsson a pass on his horrendous giveaways. Spezza should be given a little leeway as well. You have to let your skilled players risk a little bit now and then. That's why they are the top players in the game.

The investment question on Spezza is a reasonable one. I myself am not sure where I stand on that. I personally think this team would be best off with him. However, if his health is in question come that time, it would be hard to swallow a big contract. I am also not entirely sold he will be asking for the bank. He may indeed want years, but I can see him taking a reducing in salary. Nothing shocking, but maybe 6 mill per instead of 7.

I wish there were these kinds of threads back when Alfie first got the C. Pretty much the exact same debate but names are changed.

i was with you until you said "best 2nd line center in the leauge"

malkin, pavelski, krejci, sharp, o'reilly, backes, etc.....

turris is great, but i would say he's far from being the best 2nd line center in the league............so far. maybe i'd put him in the top 10.

that being said, he's better then some teams top line centers (leafs, flames, sabres, jackets, preds, yotes) so who knows.


---

please explain what makes a player a "bonafide" 2nd line center? To me, it's a guy who plays on the 2nd line.

I named six guys in my post that you quoted

I love turris, maybe my favorite player on the team right now, and i have him in my hockey pool (12th round, SWEET). but i think it's a little premature to annoint him "best 2nd line center in the league
- sensarmy_11

Well, I would say you are right about Malkin, but he is a 1b. He is not a typical 2nd line centre...any other team, he is #1.

Sharp isn't a center, so you're incorrect there.
Backes isn't either.
O'reilly is not a 2nd line centre, he's a third line centre capable of playing 2nd line minutes.
Pavelski is better.
Krejci is MAYBE a tad better, but Im not even sure. He has a cup YES, but is insulated on a great team.

So again, I put Turris as a top 3, 2nd line centre in the NHL right now. No question about it. And keep in mind, he is playing against teams top shutdown lines, because effectively he is playing first line minutes.

Well I guess Del Zotto isn't the solution to our problems.

Montreal is bad...like bad bad...I maintain my prediction that the Sens will pass them and Habs miss the playoffs...

Well, I would say you are right about Malkin, but he is a 1b. He is not a typical 2nd line centre...any other team, he is #1.

Sharp isn't a center, so you're incorrect there.
Backes isn't either.
O'reilly is not a 2nd line centre, he's a third line centre capable of playing 2nd line minutes.
Pavelski is better.
Krejci is MAYBE a tad better, but Im not even sure. He has a cup YES, but is insulated on a great team.

So again, I put Turris as a top 3, 2nd line centre in the NHL right now. No question about it. And keep in mind, he is playing against teams top shutdown lines, because effectively he is playing first line minutes.
- BodyCheckRadio

Sharp you're right about.
Backes IS a centre, but he's a number 1.
As for O'Reilly, the second line is the line that plays the second most. He centres that line. He's a second line centre.