Didn't a player, (forgot his name), come out earlier in the season about Hartley forcing him to fight years ago, mocking him, etc.

I don't know, he has that reputation, & no coach will risk losing a star player to a bad injury, not just dropping the gloves, maybe a head shot? who knows?
- puckhead17

Yup, someone did. And the accusation didn't go anywhere did it?

Yeah, very true. It's history now I guess, gotta wait for the punishment to be handed down haha.

Toronto has to be a tough place to play.

But I don't know why the Flames would want either of Kadri or Gardiner. Seems like the exact opposite of what Burke would want.
- Iggysbff

Burke is high on both players, and when you can acquire either without creating new holes you do it. That said, Gardiner is likely the only of the two the Flames (could) afford to make a move for...but I just dont think the two teams can help each other out unless Burke fleeces Nonis.

Good write up Colin. Couple of points though....

"Most pundits have argued that this fiasco could have been avoided had the Canucks put out their first line of the Sedin’s rather than matching with their own 4th liners. Well, I for one am not entirely sure that it would have defused the situation, just ask Phil Kessel."
-- I highly doubt that the Flames tough guys would speed bag the sisters if Torts had started them. They may be tough but I'm fairly confident that that our new first line would have stuck to the code.

Also, as far as Peter Gammons is concerned, a MLB writer, who covers a sport which still has bench clearing brawls, and is rife with PED use has zero cred when commenting on a sport he knows nothing about. Loved how a lot of NHL'ers fried his arse on twitter yesterday.

Also, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Burke doesn't get too impatient. I don't want this team giving up 1st round picks to try and speed things up. A 2 or 3 year rebuild is fine with me as long as the never say die work ethic is ingrained to the fullest.

Monahan, Giordano, Hudler, Backlund, and Wideman

nice building blocks, I can't see Gardiner, but Kadri would make this a nicer nucleus
- puckhead17

I doubt hudler and wideman could be considered building blocks, maybe traded for building blocks

Ya...I hear ya.

Either way everyone should shoulder some of the blames. They all had a hand in it. Regardless of whose fault it was, it doesn't really matter to me.

As a Flames fan i'm happy Hartley started the fourth line. It would have been way too easy for the Flames to roll in there, get beat 5-0 and head to the airport. But he sent a message to the team and the entire organization that this team will never lay down. Maybe the Oilers could have used something like this 3-4 years ago
- The-O-G

I understand why he did it, not condoning it, (Hartley), but he's in a position where there isn't much they can do, losing Cammy when they already have a tough time scoring.
That said, any coach, or player for that matter will do anything they can to save their job, but whatever Torts gets, Hartley should get as well, Torts just made himself look stupid with the hallway & locker room antics, he took a bad situation & made it much worse.
I think if Hartley went to the end of the bench & confronted him, he wouldn't have gone nuts like he did, Hartley just ignoring him with the stoic look just pi$$ed him off more

How about icing the rookie Lain? Yeah that certainly seems like a call which Torts is kicking himself over...

Toronto has to be a tough place to play.

But I don't know why the Flames would want either of Kadri or Gardiner. Seems like the exact opposite of what Burke would want.
- Iggysbff

Burke drafted both of them.

I doubt hudler and wideman could be considered building blocks, maybe traded for building blocks
- FLAM3SFAN

They are very good players, they need to hang on to them, (just my opinion), Burke wont strip it down & wait 5 years, he's too impatient

I think it was embarrassing. It was basically 5 'staged' fights. What kind of hostility do those players have towards each other anyways?

Most of the 'goons' involved have only been in their respective teams for a couple years. What kind of 'rivalry' have Calgary (garbage) and Vancouver (good) really had over the past two seasons? It's not like there is a playoff history there or anything.

Compare that to the Ottawa, Montreal line brawl in the playoffs last year. Now that was entertaining.

Why?

First, because all of them are hockey players and made the NHL based on their ability to play the game, whereas half the fighters on Saturday aren't even AHL caliber players.

Second, it was a playoff series and emotions were running high. They fought because they had a general dislike of each other, whereas on Saturday, most of those guys were fighting just to justify their jobs in the NHL.

This was the ultimate staged fight, between the players anyways. It's clear that Hartley, the goon-coach, and Torts, the emotional basket case, really hate each other.

And since that's the case, it would have been much more entertaining to see those two go toe-to-toe than a bunch of goons-that-can't-play-hockey.
- Charliebox

Gimme a break pal....Smid, Butler, Jones??? Ya....real "goons"

Did you watch any of the player interviews after? Butler said he skated over and Garrison just asked him if he wanted to fight and he said sure....nothing pre-planned or staged. Just a couple of guys wanting to battle.

Burke drafted both of them.
- whipper334

But I thought Burkey only likes goons?

Good write up Colin. Couple of points though....

"Most pundits have argued that this fiasco could have been avoided had the Canucks put out their first line of the Sedin’s rather than matching with their own 4th liners. Well, I for one am not entirely sure that it would have defused the situation, just ask Phil Kessel."
-- I highly doubt that the Flames tough guys would speed bag the sisters if Torts had started them. They may be tough but I'm fairly confident that that our new first line would have stuck to the code.

Also, as far as Peter Gammons is concerned, a MLB writer, who covers a sport which still has bench clearing brawls, and is rife with PED use has zero cred when commenting on a sport he knows nothing about. Loved how a lot of NHL'ers fried his arse on twitter yesterday.

Also, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Burke doesn't get too impatient. I don't want this team giving up 1st round picks to try and speed things up. A 2 or 3 year rebuild is fine with me as long as the never say die work ethic is ingrained to the fullest.



- scubasteve

I doubt it too, but you can never be too sure anymore when you have guys like Scott threatening Kessel...I guess Hartley wanted to set the standard for the game and that was "we dont have as much talent, but we can crash and bang...here's my first line, your move, sir."

But I thought Burkey only likes goons?
- The-O-G

No doubt.

Scott Parker I believe. But ya, he claimed Hartley called him a pu$$y etc.... (I don't know a single coach that hasn't done this, or something along these lines at some point).

Either way...nobody is going to call our McGratton for not jumping hank or dank
- The-O-G

Hank or Dank

That's it Scott Parker

I doubt it too, but you can never be too sure anymore when you have guys like Scott threatening Kessel...I guess Hartley wanted to set the standard for the game and that was "we dont have as much talent, but we can crash and bang...here's my first line, your move, sir."
- Colin Dambrauskas

What about Sedin-Sedin-Sestito??

Get the McGratton-Sestito fight over with and nothing else happens.

They are very good players, they need to hang on to them, (just my opinion), Burke wont strip it down & wait 5 years, he's too impatient
- puckhead17

I dont know about that...Wideman and Hudler are nice to have around for the time being, but if they can be flipped for picks/prospects/younger players they should do it without blinking an eye. They need vets around, but they also need to slowly make room for the Sieloffs etc too. My guess is Wideman stays, Hudler is moved.

What about Sedin-Sedin-Sestito??

Get the McGratton-Sestito fight over with and nothing else happens.
- The-O-G

Yeah maybe...or McGratton says to hell with it, and grabs both sisters. Takes 5 games and enjoys every minute of it

Yeah maybe...or McGratton says to hell with it, and grabs both sisters. Takes 5 games and enjoys every minute of it
- Colin Dambrauskas

Hahaha....although I would love to see that happen, McGratton would probably be blackballed from the league if he ever did that.

Which makes me wonder how John Scott still has a job.

Gimme a break pal....Smid, Butler, Jones??? Ya....real "goons"

Did you watch any of the player interviews after? Butler said he skated over and Garrison just asked him if he wanted to fight and he said sure....nothing pre-planned or staged. Just a couple of guys wanting to battle.
- The-O-G

If anything, this proves my point.

Hardly any hostility before the game.

This wasn't a case of the players hating each other. This was a case of the coaches hating each other.

Hartley has not started a similar lineup against any other team this year.. then he does it against Torts. Considering their history, it's pretty obvious why.

Crap carried over from their time in NY and Atlanta. It wasn't about the players, or the 'teams', it was about two coaches that hate each other.

So, yes, from the aspect of the players, it was staged.

Embarrassing. Bob acting innocent but he knew damn well what he was doing. But mostly its on Torts for accepting then blowing up.

Hartly should be fined. Torts fined and suspended.

Anyone thinking it was "great" especially on hockey day in Canada is juvenile.
- Iggysbff

Well, then call me juvenile because I thought it was great. I don't want to see it every game but it sure made the rest of that game interesting. It wasn't something we see every day.

Between Gardiner and Kadri I would rather make a play for Kadri. I just don't see a need for Gardiner at the moment. Of course it would have to be an obvious win for us because I don't think moving multiple big assets for him is worth it.

I'm starting to move in the direction that Glenx may not be needed for this rebuild and that we should consider gaining younger assets for him. He's been injured a lot this season and the guys have continued to battle without him. Same with Wideman. although admittedly we would hurt on the backend a bit more. Also we would likely be selling low on Glenx.

Burke drafted both of them.
- whipper334

He did draft Kadri but there was word that he didn't want to. It was all the rest of the Leafs brass and scouting that forced the pick.

You cant criticize people for their opinions, though. For me, I watched a hockey game which got my heart pumping and created a ton of discussion/debate. It was entertaining to watch and despite having a potential negative image for those who are no more than fair weather fans, or what have you, it doesnt happen often.

No one thinks less of baseball because of the "brawls" and collar bone breaking charges which break out from time to time...I enjoyed it for what it was. Had I been invested in the sport, perhaps I would have a differing opinion, but I watch/play hockey for its entertainment purposes, and I was entertained.
- Colin Dambrauskas

I guess you need to have a moving carousel of players in and out of fhe federal court for drug abuse to be considered a "major sport."

This is from Paul Stewart's recent blog.

What I saw was eons from being among the most out-of-control brawls or violent things I've ever seen on the ice. Rather, it was a bunch of posturing by the coaches.

Comparatively speaking, what happened in Vancouver was a big pillow fight. It was ordained before the opening faceoff, and the combatants did it half-heartedly with no genuine anger or emotion among the players. The coaches are a different story, but I'll get to them later.

What I saw from the players on the two sides was more along the lines of "OK, guys, let's get this over with now" than "I'm gonna tear those S.O.B.s heads off!"

I know the difference. Believe me, even the designated enforcers sent on the ice by their respective sides for the first shift on Saturday were not all that eager to fight. They didn't exactly resist being separated.

It's exactly what I was saying.

No emotion.. no hatred.. just guys going through the motions. Staged.

As I said, compare that to the line brawl between Ottawa and Montreal in the playoffs last year.

Monahan, Giordano, Hudler, Backlund, and Wideman

nice building blocks, I can't see Gardiner, but Kadri would make this a nicer nucleus
- puckhead17

Would you guys have any interest in Wideman?

This is from Paul Stewart's recent blog.



It's exactly what I was saying.

No emotion.. no hatred.. just guys going through the motions. Staged.

As I said, compare that to the line brawl between Ottawa and Montreal in the playoffs last year.
- Charliebox

Agree with a lot of Pauls points. It was all about the coaches.

This is from Paul Stewart's recent blog.



It's exactly what I was saying.

No emotion.. no hatred.. just guys going through the motions. Staged.

As I said, compare that to the line brawl between Ottawa and Montreal in the playoffs last year.
- Charliebox

Your definition of "staged" and mine is different...but anyway....