I'm not talking about taking fighting out of hockey. But Hartley claiming it was innocent is bull. The talking started as soon as they were on the ice. It was pretty clear they were instructed to me. Off the opening face off like that is beer league.
- Iggysbff

He's not innocent, I don't think anyone thinks he is. But I don't expect him to come out and admit it either.

IMO when Torts tossed out the tough guys it was on. If he put the Sedins out nothing would have happened (except a Canucks goal more than likely) Even Westgarth didn't jump Bieksa when Bieksa didn't drop his gloves, he certainly wouldn't have fought Daniel Sedin.

I'm going to weigh in on the brawl here, and that genius of a hockey mind, Mr. Peter Gammons. Giving any credence or weight to ANYTHING Mr. Gammons says regarding hockey, is like asking me to judge an ice dancing competition!! Each of us would know nothing, nor watch the events!! Gimme a break Mr. Gammons, and go back to the snoozefest, which is baseball. Lots of people never go out for Thai food, either. It doesn't make it bad, it's just about partaking in somethin you prefer. If he doesn't like or understand the game, don't weigh in, no hockey fans care what YOU think. Hockey happens to be growing at record pace. Just look at the cap, which is tied to revenues! I'm sick of any press whereby know-nothing's bash the greatest sport on earth! As far as the line brawl goes, It happens every now and then. It isn't the norm, but there are bench clearing brawls in baseball, too. While I'm no fan of Torts, in this instance, given the events that saw his best players get a beating last week, Hartley knew he would have no choice but, to ice his brawlers first. So what! It had electrified the building, and as Colin said, added to the intensity of he rivalry. My only issue here is Torts' attempt to get into the Flames' locker room! That stunt was I'll advised, could have gotten him a beating at the hands of one of the players, and then really would have been a black eye to the sport. For that, a suspension is in order. There would have been plenty of time, in another setting, for Torts and Hartley to go at it....and give us something else to look forward to, next game these two meet.

Do they have any plugs the Flames could take back to offset the salary? Dion?
- The-O-G

They have plugs, but they all have NTC/NMC. Although I guess it might not be far fetched to see Burke convince someone to waive to go to CGY.

debatable...but some argue Clarkson and his 5.25M. Though I maintain that they need to be patient with him...Leafs fans thought they got a new version of Crosby when they grabbed him
- Colin Dambrauskas

You think the Flames would eat the Clarkson deal?

Kadri and Clarkson for a 5th rounder

I'm not talking about taking fighting out of hockey. But Hartley claiming it was innocent is bull. The talking started as soon as they were on the ice. It was pretty clear they were instructed to me. Off the opening face off like that is beer league.
- Iggysbff

For sure it was, and anyone who thinks he started McGrattan and Westgarth for any other reason is being irrational. That said, you cant say it was interesting to watch just the same...

Hartley will get 10k fine just like the Sabres did....Tortorella much more. The NHL doesnt mind the extra media attention, but a lot of those in power are trying to avoid (this) type of attention.

Monahan, Giordano, Hudler, Backlund, and Wideman

nice building blocks, I can't see Gardiner, but Kadri would make this a nicer nucleus

I'm not talking about taking fighting out of hockey. But Hartley claiming it was innocent is bull. The talking started as soon as they were on the ice. It was pretty clear they were instructed to me. Off the opening face off like that is beer league.
- Iggysbff

I doubt it happens if the Sedins are out there.

He's not innocent, I don't think anyone thinks he is. But I don't expect him to come out and admit it either.

IMO when Torts tossed out the tough guys it was on. If he put the Sedins out nothing would have happened (except a Canucks goal more than likely) Even Westgarth didn't jump Bieksa when Bieksa didn't drop his gloves, he certainly wouldn't have fought Daniel Sedin.
- The-O-G

I don't agree with this, after Scott & Kessel?

can we confirm this honestly?

look at it again, 4 Flames players dropped the gloves first, right away.

I'm going to weigh in on the brawl here, and that genius of a hockey mind, Mr. Peter Gammons. Giving any credence or weight to ANYTHING Mr. Gammons says regarding hockey, is like asking me to judge an ice dancing competition!! Each of us would know nothing, nor watch the events!! Gimme a break Mr. Gammons, and go back to the snoozefest, which is baseball. Lots of people never go out for Thai food, either. It doesn't make it bad, it's just about partaking in somethin you prefer. If he doesn't like or understand the game, don't weigh in, no hockey fans care what YOU think. Hockey happens to be growing at record pace. Just look at the cap, which is tied to revenues! I'm sick of any press whereby know-nothing's bash the greatest sport on earth! As far as the line brawl goes, It happens every now and then. It isn't the norm, but there are bench clearing brawls in baseball, too. While I'm no fan of Torts, in this instance, given the events that saw his best players get a beating last week, Hartley knew he would have no choice but, to ice his brawlers first. So what! It had electrified the building, and as Colin said, added to the intensity of he rivalry. My only issue here is Torts' attempt to get into the Flames' locker room! That stunt was I'll advised, could have gotten him a beating at the hands of one of the players, and then really would have been a black eye to the sport. For that, a suspension is in order. There would have been plenty of time, in another setting, for Torts and Hartley to go at it....and give us something else to look forward to, next game these two meet.
- Hokeeguy9

Good post!!!

Like Colin said, it's no different then a baseball brawl....in fact, it's probably not as bad! Where is Mr. Gammons then?

Just a d-bag looking to gain some notoriety with a dumb comment, that's all!

With Bolland back/healthy however, it could make moving Kadri that much easier.
- Colin Dambrauskas

True, but like Clarkson I think it's too early to give up on Kadri who has shown he can be an elite player in this league, especially in favour of an injury prone UFA third liner.

Good post!!!

Like Colin said, it's no different then a baseball brawl....in fact, it's probably not as bad! Where is Mr. Gammons then?

Just a d-bag looking to gain some notoriety with a dumb comment, that's all!
- The-O-G

EF him!!

the games all time hit leader is banned from the game, & A Rod, McGuire, Bonds???
steroids?

please

I don't agree with this, after Scott & Kessel?

can we confirm this honestly?

look at it again, 4 Flames players dropped the gloves first, right away.
- puckhead17

Like I said....when Bieksa didn't drop his gloves with Westgarth, Westgarth stopped. And McGratton has zero track record of ever jumping anyone.

John Scott is a pure A-hole, and an exception to the norm. Not to mention that all happened during the course of a game. John Scott didn't attack Kessel off the opening face off.

I would say it's reasonable to conclude that nothing would have happened with the Sedins out there. Or maybe torts could have put Sestito on the wing with the Sedins?

True, but like Clarkson I think it's too early to give up on Kadri who has shown he can be an elite player in this league, especially in favour of an injury prone UFA third liner.
- Lahey

I dont think, for one second, that Nonis is shopping Kadri. He (will) move him for the right price, but not giving up on him. I see a similar type trade as the Seguin trade with Boston...if it ever happens.

EF him!!

the games all time hit leader is banned from the game, & A Rod, McGuire, Bonds???
steroids?

please
- puckhead17

Ha ha true!!! Baseball is ridiculous these days, and only survives because of it's roots and strong history.

To attack the game of hockey because of one incident is weak.

Like I said....when Bieksa didn't drop his gloves with Westgarth, Westgarth stopped. And McGratton has zero track record of ever jumping anyone.

John Scott is a pure A-hole, and an exception to the norm. Not to mention that all happened during the course of a game. John Scott didn't attack Kessel off the opening face off.

I would say it's reasonable to conclude that nothing would have happened with the Sedins out there. Or maybe torts could have put Sestito on the wing with the Sedins?
- The-O-G

I don't know if any coach would take the chance of putting scorers out against them
Not bashing, but, Hartley has a rep for doing this stuff over the years & everyone knows Torts has too short a fuse for anything & can't control himself.

I dont think, for one second, that Nonis is shopping Kadri. He (will) move him for the right price, but not giving up on him. I see a similar type trade as the Seguin trade with Boston...if it ever happens.
- Colin Dambrauskas

I guess it also depends on if Kadri wants to be there as well. He says he does but I would suggest his body language says something different.

Weirdest game I've watched in my life.

Hartley, meh. He's fighting for his job just like the rest of this team.

I don't think even Hartley expected the entire line to fight. I think he knew Mcgrattan and Westgarth were going to look for trouble.

I thought it was entertaining, and definitely was on the edge of my seat.

What I don't get is, why didn't Torts put out a scoring line at the beginning of the game? No way was Mcgrattan or Westgarth fighting either of the Sedins. And for a desperate team, why no go for an early goal against the Flames 4th line?

Ha ha true!!! Baseball is ridiculous these days, and only survives because of it's roots and strong history.

To attack the game of hockey because of one incident is weak.
- The-O-G

Don't know what leg Gammons thinks he has to stand on in any argument with Baseball?

If you really look at all the issues over the years, Pete Rose, all the steroid users, Steve Howe, what a joke

Weirdest game I've watched in my life.

Hartley, meh. He's fighting for his job just like the rest of this team.

I don't think even Hartley expected the entire line to fight. I think he knew Mcgrattan and Westgarth were going to look for trouble.

I thought it was entertaining, and definitely was on the edge of my seat.

What I don't get is, why didn't Torts put out a scoring line at the beginning of the game? No way was Mcgrattan or Westgarth fighting either of the Sedins. And for a desperate team, why no go for an early goal against the Flames 4th line?
- beingaflamesfan

Didn't a player, (forgot his name), come out earlier in the season about Hartley forcing him to fight years ago, mocking him, etc.

I don't know, he has that reputation, & no coach will risk losing a star player to a bad injury, not just dropping the gloves, maybe a head shot? who knows?

I don't know if any coach would take the chance of putting scorers out against them
Not bashing, but, Hartley has a rep for doing this stuff over the years & everyone knows Torts has too short a fuse for anything & can't control himself.
- puckhead17

Ya...I hear ya.

Either way everyone should shoulder some of the blames. They all had a hand in it. Regardless of whose fault it was, it doesn't really matter to me.

As a Flames fan i'm happy Hartley started the fourth line. It would have been way too easy for the Flames to roll in there, get beat 5-0 and head to the airport. But he sent a message to the team and the entire organization that this team will never lay down. Maybe the Oilers could have used something like this 3-4 years ago

Don't know what leg Gammons thinks he has to stand on in any argument with Baseball?

If you really look at all the issues over the years, Pete Rose, all the steroid users, Steve Howe, what a joke
- puckhead17

Yeah anyone using this incident to drag hockey down is brutal. Baseball is a complete joke.

Didn't a player, (forgot his name), come out earlier in the season about Hartley forcing him to fight years ago, mocking him, etc.
- puckhead17

Yup.

Didn't a player, (forgot his name), come out earlier in the season about Hartley forcing him to fight years ago, mocking him, etc.
- puckhead17

Scott Parker I believe. But ya, he claimed Hartley called him a pu$$y etc.... (I don't know a single coach that hasn't done this, or something along these lines at some point).

Either way...nobody is going to call our McGratton for not jumping hank or dank

I guess it also depends on if Kadri wants to be there as well. He says he does but I would suggest his body language says something different.
- whipper334

Toronto has to be a tough place to play.

But I don't know why the Flames would want either of Kadri or Gardiner. Seems like the exact opposite of what Burke would want.

I think it was embarrassing. It was basically 5 'staged' fights. What kind of hostility do those players have towards each other anyways?

Most of the 'goons' involved have only been in their respective teams for a couple years. What kind of 'rivalry' have Calgary (garbage) and Vancouver (good) really had over the past two seasons? It's not like there is a playoff history there or anything.

Compare that to the Ottawa, Montreal line brawl in the playoffs last year. Now that was entertaining.

Why?

First, because all of them are hockey players and made the NHL based on their ability to play the game, whereas half the fighters on Saturday aren't even AHL caliber players.

Second, it was a playoff series and emotions were running high. They fought because they had a general dislike of each other, whereas on Saturday, most of those guys were fighting just to justify their jobs in the NHL.

This was the ultimate staged fight, between the players anyways. It's clear that Hartley, the goon-coach, and Torts, the emotional basket case, really hate each other.

And since that's the case, it would have been much more entertaining to see those two go toe-to-toe than a bunch of goons-that-can't-play-hockey.