I know he was(is) hurt. I'm not saying he's useless and won't get better. He is much better at center. The truth is the truth though. He hasn't been better than any of those guys. He's had trouble fitting in with any line. You have to admit, since he's come back from injury (not at 100%) he's been struggling a lot.
- PhillySportsGuy

He has struggled to find the back of the net, but I wouldn't say he's been horrible though. I still find that his size down low creates in the offensive zone. I just look at the circumstances around his play and I realize this isn't an accurate picture of his ability of play given the context.

You said the 07/08 team had "way more talent" on defense, yet they gave up more goals per game than this atrocious defense. I'd expect that magical 07/08 defense to have a lower (much lower) figure when compared to this terrible one, not a higher number.
- jmatchett383

07/08 also had better two-way forwards. Briere wasn't very good, but Carter and Richards were(are) both outstanding two-way players.

I know the answer is "never," but how many points does Mark Streit have to score before people get off the narrative of "he doesn't score enough to justify his salary or his defensive play"?

Because just in case anyone was wondering, his 20 points is 33rd in the entire NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE for defensemen, and is tied with Brian Campbell -- who makes more money than him, and is more than Dion Phaneuf, Slava Voynov and Tobias Enstrom, among others, who all make a fair amount of money themselves and aren't exactly Norris Trophy candidates.

Streit's productive enough for his salary. I know people hate it when narratives aren't true, but...it's true.

You said the 07/08 team had "way more talent" on defense, yet they gave up more goals per game than this atrocious defense. I'd expect that magical 07/08 defense to have a lower (much lower) figure when compared to this terrible one, not a higher number.
- jmatchett383

Forwards were more defensively responsible on that team. Also we had mason playing out of his mind when they couldnt score. That team had who? Marty Biron

He has struggled to find the back of the net, but I wouldn't say he's been horrible though. I still find that his size down low creates in the offensive zone. I just look at the circumstances around his play and I realize this isn't an accurate picture of his ability of play given the context.
- Flyers_V88

It was my fault for wording it a little harshly. I didn't mean to make it seem like he's been an albatross.

My primary concern with signing him was that he's more of a luxury signing. They have enough centers. I wanted Schenn to play center this season. I, also, felt the team had enough scoring.

I felt the money could have been used in a different spot.

Maybe the narrative should be that if Nicklas Grossmann were having a better season, Mark Streit would be absolutely killing it for the Flyers -- and truthfully, I'm not certain that isn't the case.

I know the answer is "never," but how many points does Mark Streit have to score before people get off the narrative of "he doesn't score enough to justify his salary or his defensive play"?

Because just in case anyone was wondering, his 20 points is 33rd in the entire NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE for defensemen, and is tied with Brian Campbell -- who makes more money than him, and is more than Dion Phaneuf, Slava Voynov and Tobias Enstrom, among others, who all make a fair amount of money themselves and aren't exactly Norris Trophy candidates.

Streit's productive enough for his salary. I know people hate it when narratives aren't true, but...it's true.
- AllInForFlyers

i dont think its the points as much as he exposes the team defensively. its like having a fourth forward out there.

I know the answer is "never," but how many points does Mark Streit have to score before people get off the narrative of "he doesn't score enough to justify his salary or his defensive play"?

Because just in case anyone was wondering, his 20 points is 33rd in the entire NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE for defensemen, and is tied with Brian Campbell -- who makes more money than him, and is more than Dion Phaneuf, Slava Voynov and Tobias Enstrom, among others, who all make a fair amount of money themselves and aren't exactly Norris Trophy candidates.

Streit's productive enough for his salary. I know people hate it when narratives aren't true, but...it's true.
- AllInForFlyers

33rd isn't all that impressive. In reality, I think he needs to be a + player to validate his salary. Even if he's only a +1, his PP prowess will make him worth it.

Maybe the narrative should be that if Nicklas Grossmann were having a better season, Mark Streit would be absolutely killing it for the Flyers -- and truthfully, I'm not certain that isn't the case.
- AllInForFlyers

Maybe the narrative should die. I think we know where you stand on this issue.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Not Pretty, But Two Points
- bmeltzer

By comparison, Washington (same number of points as the Flyers but with a game in hand) has only accomplished 14 of its 22 wins on the season in regulation or overtime.

this been irritating me for a while! they have maybe two ROW in the last 2+ weeks.

this been irritating me for a while! they have maybe two ROW in the last 2+ weeks.
- -davies-

I know. If there was no shootout, the caps would be behind several teams.

ugh. I got hit over the head with a stomach flu. I think I died a couple times over the last 4 days.

Maybe the narrative should die. I think we know where you stand on this issue.
- PhillySportsGuy

If that's what ends a conversation around here...

Radio Silence.

If that's what ends a conversation around here...

Radio Silence.
- wolfhounds

It came out a little worse than I thought. I'm just sick of arguing over Grossmann and Streit and who is more at fault.

ugh. I got hit over the head with a stomach flu. I think I died a couple times over the last 4 days.
- youarewrong

Maybe you have the same thing thats keeping downie out of the lineup

Ha! Because Regehr has reached "Savvy Veteran Status," which means your Awe-Inspiring Leadership makes up for your sub-par skating, puck skills and hockey sense.
- AllInForFlyers

LOL, that's the last 8-years of Hal Gill's career in a nutshell.

It came out a little worse than I thought. I'm just sick of arguing over Grossmann and Streit and who is more at fault.
- PhillySportsGuy

No harm done -- I think if we all worked a little harder at not letting narratives take root, then people will move on a little quicker and no one will be as frustrated as we all are about this stuff.

Pretty much everybody on the team has been adequate this season -- not great, not awful. There are some outliers of greatness and awful, but no one player who has been fairly productive is the worst thing this franchise has ever seen.

I know the answer is "never," but how many points does Mark Streit have to score before people get off the narrative of "he doesn't score enough to justify his salary or his defensive play"?

Because just in case anyone was wondering, his 20 points is 33rd in the entire NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE for defensemen, and is tied with Brian Campbell -- who makes more money than him, and is more than Dion Phaneuf, Slava Voynov and Tobias Enstrom, among others, who all make a fair amount of money themselves and aren't exactly Norris Trophy candidates.

Streit's productive enough for his salary. I know people hate it when narratives aren't true, but...it's true.
- AllInForFlyers

I've been feeling this for a while... Like people DO NOT GET that you HAVE TO PAY A PUCK-MOVING D with a PROVEN track record...

He IS NOT going to be the elite defensemen the Flyers have been looking for since Pronger went down. He won't be the answer to our D issues. He is what he is, and he's been playing well for over a month now.

Buffalo isn't a great team, but they were 6-0-2 in their last 8 home games. There is no such thing as an easy road game in the NHL.
- PLindbergh31

exactly.

LOL, that's the last 8-years of Hal Gill's career in a nutshell.
- Tomahawk

I've always thought the poster child was Mark Messier, whose ability to lead hockey players to amazing heights was clearly under-appreciated by those who watched him play in Vancouver and in his return to the New York Rangers.

I've been feeling this for a while... Like people DO NOT GET that you HAVE TO PAY A PUCK-MOVING D with a PROVEN track record...

He IS NOT going to be the elite defensemen the Flyers have been looking for since Pronger went down. He won't be the answer to our D issues. He is what he is, and he's been playing well for over a month now.
- Flyers_V88

I agree -- I can't even imagine how tragic the defense would be without him, and that's even with his acknowledged weaknesses.

33rd isn't all that impressive. In reality, I think he needs to be a + player to validate his salary. Even if he's only a +1, his PP prowess will make him worth it.
- PhillySportsGuy

But...but...plus/minus is a horrible statistic. UGH.

I agree -- I can't even imagine how tragic the defense would be without him, and that's even with his acknowledged weaknesses.
- AllInForFlyers

And hey, I'm not advocating that Streit has been unreal, or that he's been perfect and everything we've hoped for, HELL NO! BUT, I also realize his value now watching him for half the year, and realize that if you want D who can move the puck and score, you need to pay them. The names in the posts above by comparison to Streit illustrate this exact point to a tee. The market value has been set, and if teams want these types of players, you're going to have to pay.

Streit has played noticeably better over the past month and a half though, and his salary is not so much an issue. I think the only thing I'm concerned about is the length, not even the amount. The amount is quite reasonable given his career numbers and play.

I know. If there was no shootout, the caps would be behind several teams.
- PhillySportsGuy

they'd be 7th in the division and 13th in the conference

Buffalo isn't a great team, but they were 6-0-2 in their last 8 home games. There is no such thing as an easy road game in the NHL.
- PLindbergh31

*rubs eyes*