i would replace kolzig with belfour.
- hammarby31

The year Lindros had his best year (95-96), the top SV% goalies were .920 (Hasek), .918 (Puppa) and .916 (Hackett). Last season, over 20 starting goalies reached those heights, with 8 guys over .924 and the leader over .940.

The concept of Lindros being able to grab Crosby and shake him like a rag doll doesn't seem to be sinking in either. I can figuratively see Lindros bending a crying crosby over his knee and beating him with a goalie stick.
- youarewrong

Did the refs on go on strike or something?

Did the refs on go on strike or something?
- Tomahawk

Nope the NHL brought in Stewart for 1 last game and he said, "I'll allow it."

The year Lindros had his best year (95-96), the top SV% goalies were .920 (Hasek), .918 (Puppa) and .916 (Hackett). Last season, over 20 starting goalies reached those heights, with 8 guys over .924 and the leader over .940.
- Tomahawk

nothing exists in a vacuum and i'm generally not a fan of comparing eras. why not make the argument that goalies from the 90s could have been as good, or better than the average guy now if they were to play in today's game?

the methods and techniques of goaltending have changed far more than the other positional players. for them, the physical conditioning and systems of play have changed - they haven't become more physically skilled at doing their jobs. they don't play the game differently.imho.

nothing exists in a vacuum and i'm generally not a fan of comparing eras. why not make the argument that goalies from the 90s could have been as good, or better than the average guy now if they were to play in today's game?

the methods and techniques of goaltending have changed far more than the other positional players. for them, the physical conditioning and systems of play have changed - they haven't become more physically skilled at doing their jobs. they don't play the game differently.imho.
- hammarby31

If we're just talking about goalies, then all are fair points.

But the original point was that points/goals were worth more in the 90's due to clutch n grab. I was suggesting that the advances in goal and in def. systems offset any difference.

88 was a great player... but he was self-serving and self-congratulatory to a fault, and that doesn't equate to success.
- Tomahawk

Obviously his hold out in Jr and NHL was self serving, and likely prompted by Bonnie and Carl, but self congratulatory? I always thought he was kind of humble in interviews etc. What makes you have that view?

If we're just talking about goalies, then all are fair points.

But the original point was that points/goals were worth more in the 90's due to clutch n grab. I was suggesting that the advances in goal and in def. systems offset any difference.
- Tomahawk

No the original post was Lindros Would manhandle Crosby.

Just for the heck of it, and cause I haven't done a top 10 list in a LONG time, here is the top 10 players I ever saw in my 40+ years of watching hockey

1. Bobby Orr
On 2 bad knees, the guy could skate rings around the rest of the league. Also I cannot ever remember the guy making a bad pass. 8 straight Norris trophies, 2 Hart trophies, 2 Smythe trophies, and I believe 1 or 2 Art Ross trophies as well. Orr was the total package. Oh, and he also routinely played anywhere from 30 to 40 minutes per game as well.

2. Mario Lemieux
Didn't do it for as long as Gretzky, but for about 6 or 7 years was hands down the best player in the world. Mario could do it all, score, pass, and he did it all with grace and style. When asked how he would make Lemieux fit into his D first scheme, Ken Hitchcock basically said that Lemieux was the best defensive player on the ice because the puck was on his stick every moment he was out there.

3. Wayne Gretzky
Without a doubt, the best pure playmaker I've ever seen and one heck of a goal scorer too. Wayne had the knack of simply always being in the right place at the right time. His records will most likely never be broken.

4. Nick Lidstrom
Lidstrom was simply the perfect defenseman. Need to qb the pp, put Lidstrom on the ice; need to kill a penalty, put Lidstrom on the ice; need to shut the other team down, put Lidstrom on the ice; need to score a goal to tie up the game, put Lidstrom on the ice. He was a coaches dream, put him on the ice at any time and in any situation and he would always make the right play.

5. Eric Lindros
For a short time, he was the scariest player I ever saw. He could go around you or through you and both his wrist shot and backhand were lethal. He was dominant on faceoffs, and if you were dumb enough to drop the gloves with him, well you deserved what you got. If injuries hadn't cut his career short, he would have been the Gordie Howe of his era.

6. Peter Forsberg
Much like Lindros, injuries robbed him of some playing time. However, in his prime, his playmaking skills were second only to those of Gretzky. He was strong, skilled and could be used in any situation. Even on 2 bad feet, he was still one of the best players in the league.

7. Denis Potvin
Potvin was the best all around dman in the league from the late 70s into the early 80s. He was just as good defensively as offensively and he ate up huge minutes for a team that won 4 cups in a row. As a Flyers fan, I hated the sumfemale dog, but man I really wish he had been a Flyer.

8. Mark Messier
Next to Bobby Clarke, he was the best team captain I ever saw. Mess could simply will a team to win. Heck without him it would be 73 years and counting for the Rangers. Because he played in the same era as Gretzky and Lemieux his skills often get somewhat overlooked, but don't kid yourselves, he is one of the all time greats.

9. Ray Bourque
What is it about Boston and defensemen anyway. From Shore to Orr to Bourque they have been truly blessed. Bourque was a 2 way machine and strong as an ox. Of all the defensemen of his era, I would rate only Lidstrom above him.

10. Steve Yzerman
Evolved from a one dimensional offensive player into one of the best 2 way forwards and team leaders to ever play the game. Imagine a more skilled version of Datsyuk and that would be Yzerman. He was a pleasure to watch, except during the 97 finals.

Just missed the cut:
Bobby Clarke
Sergei Federov
Joe Sakic
Sidney Crosby
Guy Lafleur
Mike Bossy
Larry Robinson
Sergei Federov
- BiggE

that number 2 is a stud

No the original post was Lindros Would manhandle Crosby.
- youarewrong

physicality wise, no doubt. lindros was a tank compared to him.

that number 2 is a stud
- stayinthefnnet

Question for you. Is Crosby better then Lemieux?

Question for you. Is Crosby better then Lemieux?
- youarewrong

god no.

Question for you. Is Crosby better then Lemieux?
- youarewrong

say its bias or what, but crosby is the best out of this current batch of players, and will be one of the all time guys, but he isnt going to be lemieux.

Question for you. Is Crosby better then Lemieux?
- youarewrong

Not even close and that's not a knock on Sid, Mario was just that good.

Probably because drinking and producing products from the breast milk of another animal seems kind of disgusting when you stop and think about it.... Chinese people are more averse to cheese than Westerners are to tofu, believe it or not.
- Tomahawk

Okay, I got it on the chinese cheese thing. According to sources, the chinese didn't herd cattle because it was either too hot or too humid. They relied on fishing and growing tropical vegetables so they didn't really use milk based products. Over the 1000's of years they became somewhat lactose intolerant as a civilization. Hence dairy is rarely used in their cooking.

Oh and that hockey stuff to stay on topic.

So apparently it just isn't a part of Chinese cuisine. It dates back a long time ago, but Chinese people are often Lactose intolerant because they rarely, if ever, eat cheese. This is pretty much true of all Western, Asian countries. Most think it is disgusting.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yeah, someone looked it up at my job. Interesting...

physicality wise, no doubt. lindros was a tank compared to him.
- stayinthefnnet

To me, the advantage Lindros had physically kind of offsets the slight edge in skill that Sid probably has...they are pretty comparable overall imo...if I was assured both players would play for say, 18 years in the NHL, with no major injury, and no meddling from parents/managers, I'd take Lindros on my team...but I can understand how some may choose Sid.

Not even close and that's not a knock on Sid, Mario was just that good.
- BiggE

But the goaltending from the late 80's and early 90's is crap, right.

To me, the advantage Lindros had physically kind of offsets the slight edge in skill that Sid probably has...they are pretty comparable overall imo...if I was assured both players would play for say, 18 years in the NHL, with no major injury, and no meddling from parents/managers, I'd take Lindros on my team...but I can understand how some may choose Sid.
- exlund

This sums up my thoughts as well

To me, the advantage Lindros had physically kind of offsets the slight edge in skill that Sid probably has...they are pretty comparable overall imo...if I was assured both players would play for say, 18 years in the NHL, with no major injury, and no meddling from parents/managers, I'd take Lindros on my team...but I can understand how some may choose Sid.
- exlund

id take crosby, but i can see why a lot would go with lindros. not really a wrong choice to be made between them, if we take out all of the junk like you said. lindros was definitely a huge physical monster, and while id agree crosby has the edge in skill, lindros was no slouch. hed be up there some of the all time better guys if things had shaken out differently for him.

Okay, I got it on the chinese cheese thing. According to sources, the chinese didn't herd cattle because it was either too hot or too humid. They relied on fishing and growing tropical vegetables so they didn't really use milk based products. Over the 1000's of years they became somewhat lactose intolerant as a civilization. Hence dairy is rarely used in their cooking.

Oh and that hockey stuff to stay on topic.
- mayorofangrytown

In other off topic news: Kershaw 7 years $215M. He will be paid about $1M per start.

Oh and hockey hockey hockey

In other off topic news: Kershaw 7 years $215M. He will be paid about $1M per start.

Oh and hockey hockey hockey
- PhillySportsGuy

saw that. apparently he turned down one for 10 in the 300s

saw that. apparently he turned down one for 10 in the 300s
- stayinthefnnet

I don't think thats true. Who turns down that kind of deal? I get the feeling that the Dodgers will be in financial trouble in 5 years. They will then need to sell the team and become a 30 for 30 episode.

nothing exists in a vacuum and i'm generally not a fan of comparing eras. why not make the argument that goalies from the 90s could have been as good, or better than the average guy now if they were to play in today's game?

the methods and techniques of goaltending have changed far more than the other positional players. for them, the physical conditioning and systems of play have changed - they haven't become more physically skilled at doing their jobs. they don't play the game differently.imho.
- hammarby31

except dog hair and other undesirable materials collected from the floor

Dmitry Chesnokov ‏@dchesnokov 1h
After placing former #NHL defenseman Steve Eminger on waivers yesterday, #KHL's CSKA today terminated his contract.

Dmitry Chesnokov ‏@dchesnokov 1h
After placing former #NHL defenseman Steve Eminger on waivers yesterday, #KHL's CSKA today terminated his contract.
- wilsonecho91

"Steve, I have Paul Holmgren on line 1!"

- Eminger's agent