So if you fire RC and bring in a new coach, what system does the new coach try to use? Just curious....cause to me this looks like a personnel problem more than a system. There are way too many guys on this team right now who just dont give a (frank) about winning.

It's the usual for me, the guys I want traded 100% are guys we can't move. For whatever reason, a guy like Clarkson just hasn't found a fit here. (like versteeg a few seasons back, you try to correct your mistake), the contract is just too high and too long to move.........

There's just so much wrong with this team right now, I haven't the faintest clue where to start, and I worry that we're about to see some desperation trades.

As I said in the last thread, it is unbelievable to me just how different almost every player seems to look when they step out of this organization.

Regardless of whether Liles, Grabo, Mac, etc had to go, the problem is that they clearly weren't performing to the best of their abilities here. What does that say for the rest of the group?

If I were Nonis, I'd dedicate every moment of the day working with my staff to figure out why every Leaf looks like an all-star the second we move them.

I mean, we had to pay to move Liles, the guy that Carolina has instantly rejuvenated into a top 4 d-man. He was fine when we got him, then he went to crap (partly due to an injury, and partly due to our lousy system), then he's miraculously pretty decent again.

FIGURE IT OUT, Nonis.
- Leeman4Gilmour

yeah, the 18 point in 55 game and -20 grabovski makin 5.5mil, changed back to the 60 point guy making 3 mil

So if you fire RC and bring in a new coach, what system does the new coach try to use? Just curious....cause to me this looks like a personnel problem more than a system. There are way too many guys on this team right now who just dont give a (frank) about winning.
- CarlitoBrigante

A system that encourages skating......like all the winning teams in the west.

what would bug me most about the entire situation if i was a Leaf fan: Phil Kessel. everyone talks about the Leafs abominable work ethic/effort. yet here's a guy who just signed a $64 million contract. highest paid player on the team. last on the ice, first off the ice. and the organization just laughs and shrugs with a "Phil being Phil" attitude. you talk about poopty work ethic? start there.

So if you fire RC and bring in a new coach, what system does the new coach try to use? Just curious....cause to me this looks like a personnel problem more than a system. There are way too many guys on this team right now who just dont give a (frank) about winning.
- CarlitoBrigante

Laviolette and the left-wing lock.

what would bug me most about the entire situation if i was a Leaf fan: Phil Kessel. everyone talks about the Leafs abominable work ethic/effort. yet here's a guy who just signed a $64 million contract. highest paid player on the team. last on the ice, first off the ice. and the organization just laughs and shrugs with a "Phil being Phil" attitude. you talk about poopty work ethic? start there.
- DoubleDown

Agreed...

Even the goalies are laughing at us...

Anton Khudobin made 25 saves for the Hurricanes to improve his record to 6-0-0. Khudobin missed more than two months earlier this season with an ankle injury.

"This game was, by far, the easiest game," Khudobin said.
- CarlitoBrigante

How sad is that. It's true. We haven't had more than a handful of scoring chances combined last 3 games. making it too easy for the other teams.


Did you see the quote from the isles and canes player saying leafs bottom 6 is a mess they're easy to pick apart?

what would bug me most about the entire situation if i was a Leaf fan: Phil Kessel. everyone talks about the Leafs abominable work ethic/effort. yet here's a guy who just signed a $64 million contract. highest paid player on the team. last on the ice, first off the ice. and the organization just laughs and shrugs with a "Phil being Phil" attitude. you talk about poopty work ethic? start there.
- DoubleDown

I think you start with players, who don't have ability that don't give a (frank) first, then move to player who have ability that don't give a (frank). There is no reason whatsoever for Franson and Gunnarsson to not give a (frank)

do not trade kadri

sophomore season and he is still on a 50P pace

thats good btw.

gardiner should go, agreed, rielly is already surpassing him, franson as well.. he will want more than he's worth. lupul would be tough with his injury history. and he is the only guy really (frank)ing trying.
- Dozzer

No! we must trade Kadri plus for RoR and his $6m salary and 55 point best season...

This is going to sound nuts........but maybe its time to promote Lupul to the top line on the left side with Phil and Bozak since the current #1 line has gone cold.

Then put JVR with Kadri and Clarkson.

I'd suggest an experiment of Lupul, Kadri and Kessel too, but that might be too much change, and I don't think Kadri deserves another opportunity with Kessel right now. I may sound like HH here, but Bozak has 17 points in 21 gp....that's a 60 point pace, better than Kadri's.

A system that encourages skating......like all the winning teams in the west.
- mykokes

100% agreed

core player or coach

so one of lupul, kessel, phaneuf needs to be traded or fire RC

there is no magic answer.. its time for a change.
- Dozzer

The problem was and is the insistance of trying to win now instead of developing players to try to ensure they are ready to compete and contribute without glaring flaws in their game. Add to that the insistance on trying to build a team based on toughness and 'truculence' rather than on speed and skill.

Leaf Management can keep firing coaches and trading players to fix the problem but until they start developing prospects to play a faster more skilled game they are going to find it difficult to be anything more than a tough mediocre team.

You know everyone blames Dion for leadership. But you don't have to wear the C to be followed. Every team has cliques and groups of people others look up to. I am glad we signed kessel, it is something we had to do. However he appears to be lazy a good portion of the time. He does back check more than he used to but he has much more energy and battle in the offensive zone and often coasts to the bench on a line change. No matter what way you look at it his status on the team and contract make him a team leader. Good luck finding a coach that can change him. Until some of the players take responsibility and bust their ass doing the simple things every night were F'ed

I think you start with players, who don't have ability that don't give a (frank) first, then move to player who have ability that don't give a (frank). There is no reason whatsoever for Franson and Gunnarsson to not give a (frank)
- walshyleafsfan

disagree completely. poop runs downhill. it starts at the top with your best players because they need to set the example. i think it's fair of the organization to say to Phil "we need you to be a leader in SOME way..." he might not like it but for $64 million, you can do something you don't want to.

This is going to sound nuts........but maybe its time to promote Lupul to the top line on the left side with Phil and Bozak since the current #1 line has gone cold.

Then put JVR with Kadri and Clarkson.
- mykokes

At this point I'd try almost anything, including quadruple shifting Bozak on all lines as he seems to be the only guy out there using his brain, despite his limited talent compared to some others...

Laviolette and the left-wing lock.
- AdamFrench

i think he'd be a good fit with Toronto.

The other problem... is once the wheels start spinning players try to do too much or they start to over analyze(paralysis by analysis) Both of these situations lead to mistakes. Might even make it look like your just standing around and not trying

The other problem... is once the wheels start spinning players try to do too much or they start to over analyze(paralysis by analysis) Both of these situations lead to mistakes. Might even make it look like your just standing around and not trying
- jribout

I am not seeing this at all

disagree completely. poop runs downhill. it starts at the top with your best players because they need to set the example. i think it's fair of the organization to say to Phil "we need you to be a leader in SOME way..." he might not like it but for $64 million, you can do something you don't want to.
- DoubleDown

This.

I am not seeing this at all
- walshyleafsfan

Dion on the shorthanded goal.....

The problem was and is the insistance of trying to win now instead of developing players to try to ensure they are ready to compete and contribute without glaring flaws in their game. Add to that the insistance on trying to build a team based on toughness and 'truculence' rather than on speed and skill.

Leaf Management can keep firing coaches and trading players to fix the problem but until they start developing prospects to play a faster more skilled game they are going to find it difficult to be anything more than a tough mediocre team.
- paulr

The problem isn't that the speed and skill isn't here, the problem is that the speed and skill is being asked to play a game of truculence and toughness and they don't now how. Sure there are other issues, ie. our best stay at home d-men are slower than David Steckel, goons that don't fight and do nothing, a bottom six that is living off the achievements of last year and so on and so on, but I disagree with the part where you say developing prospects to play a faster skilled game. We have that, but few of them are willing to pay a price physically or are out of their element in trying to do so (Gardiner for one).

I am not seeing this at all
- walshyleafsfan

The extra pass or move that leads to turnovers... overchasing players and getting caught out of position..... fighting when your name is Lupul and you might break

This year the leafs have already made substantial long term commitments to Bozak, Clarkson, Kessel and Phaneuf. Bernier appears to be their choice as the #1 goaltender.

Short term, the Leafs have hit a rough stretch. But the long term situation may also be troublesome.

The other problem... is once the wheels start spinning players try to do too much or they start to over analyze(paralysis by analysis) Both of these situations lead to mistakes. Might even make it look like your just standing around and not trying
- jribout

sadly I see little to indicate that an one is thinking about anything out there... unless that's what the blank vacant stare and Richards in hand is for...