Skill's there. Mac and Grabo were garbage last year, and the team was still good.

They're just not getting their asses into it.


It's like they got so full of themselves after last year, and with their success to start this one, that they just figured they didn't need to try.
- Feeling Glucky?

this is where those stats will help a GM make decisions. Grab was good in the role he was asked to take on. They were not grabage. Carlyle is just a fool and misuses players like I have never seen before. You put players in positions to succedd, he puts them in positions to fail.

Wait a second ...that's not fooling ...that's a system. Playing a counter-attack style that focuses on high quality chances (odd man rushes with your skill players). If that was true than sign me up.

The question is why isn't that working this year?
- The Law

e.f.f.o.r.t.

So who do you propose? Guy Boucher?

Why not? We can rotate coaches until it works! Use that stupid amount of cash flow somewhere.
- Aaron85

Hunter, or you pray Babcock, Quenville, Hitchcock, or Gretzky become available lol

gotta play close games for those tensions to boil over. Leafs have had too many games where they've been rocked.
- DoubleDown

That's not true. They played to OT/shootout in nearly every game in late nov/December. Before the last 3 debacles, they had 3 regulation wins in 30 games, but were still getting points.

I'm too lazy to go back and actually chart a timeline, but my general impression is that this team has not been the same since Bolland went down.
- Atomic Wedgie

They were already soft at centre ....then Bozak and Bolland go down. Factor in a poopty year from Kadri so far ....yeesh.

Hunter, or you pray Babcock, Quenville, Hitchcock, or Gretzky become available lol
- Bigzby

come on.

He's a name, not a coach.

gotta play close games for those tensions to boil over. Leafs have had too many games where they've been rocked.
- DoubleDown

Or you have to pad an already healthy lead...

Oh, you thought that SOG differentials would make Leafs look a bit better? You're adorable.

- Fjodor

Gentle hint: when someone else points out an error in your post, don't dig yourself a bigger hole by making another absurd statement.

It's not my fault you are going to die a virgin. Go take out your frustrations elsewhere.

The years the Leafs truly blew, they got lots of shots on net.
- Feeling Glucky?

Theres too many factors to consider in this sport, you win, you deserved it, you lose, you deserved it. End of story for me. But im 30 years old in 2 weeks and im stuck in my way of thinking lol

Wait a second ...that's not fooling ...that's a system. Playing a counter-attack style that focuses on high quality chances (odd man rushes with your skill players). If that was true than sign me up.

The question is why isn't that working this year?
- The Law

Better question - why isn't that working anymore? It sure worked through Oct. Maybe the league has figured out how to effectively counter that system?

Awesome ...as a general rule. Did you watch the Leafs play last year? If you did you'd agree that Kessel et al. played a more confident game. In fact it helps support the idea of how they were able to 'fool' Corsi over the short term last year.
- The Law

I saw some of the games. Remember that corsi isn't some sort of magic bean. It just tells you which guys, and in what situations, control play. Over time (70+ games), skill will overcome luck, and corsi can predict future outcomes better than the 'eye test' or flipping a coin. Last year, your goalies were on fire. Your shot percentages were higher than team/player/league average, and yes, they had confidence. I'm not convinced this had anything at all to do with having fighters on the ice. Rather, I think it was in spite of them.

this is where those stats will help a GM make decisions. Grab was good in the role he was asked to take on. They were not grabage. Carlyle is just a fool and misuses players like I have never seen before. You put players in positions to succedd, he puts them in positions to fail.
- senstroll

Sure would have been a good idea for Burke to trade them before RC came into town. When he got here both of their trade values dropped like a sack of crap.
At one point under Wilson with Kuli they were our top line and we lost them both for nadda!

Does anyone think the Leafs can get fair value for Kadri and/or Gardiner with how Carlyle has painted them in the media

Pretty hard to believe that Nonis could get significant returns for either guy

Gardiner's value was so high 2 years ago - untouchable and now not so much
- MTL1

Not really an issue. How about Franson? All the haters still seem to love this guy. He should be available.

come on.

He's a name, not a coach.
- Feeling Glucky?

Hes my childhood idol, I wouldn't oppose him being a part of the organization in any capacity lol

Did Calyle's Ducks team have a line of goons? He had Parros, did he have anyone else?
- 2gals1dane

May, Fedorek, Thornton.

Laviolette and the left-wing lock.
- AdamFrench

If it means winning games, I'm all for it.

Could care less how they win as long as they win.

Isn't that what its all about?

Did Calyle's Ducks team have a line of goons? He had Parros, did he have anyone else?
- 2gals1dane

May Day ...May Day ...

I disagree, last year we were the 5th best team in the Eastern Conference.

This year we are currently the 9th best team in the conference.

There is no guarantee that if you shoot more you win more.
- Bigzby

5th best in a 48 game season where they did not play the superior West conference.

you see where there is a major flaw in your analysis. Advanced stats told us that in a larger sample size the leafs would not be very good.

the stats also told us the leafs had one of the highest shooting % and PDO ever, something that has been shown you cant count on as repeatable, its likley to regress and it has.

Nonis did what you did and made the team worse and put them in cap trouble.

MacArthur is having a great first season with his new team. We saw this before. I predict this causes the Sens to re-sign him at too much money and they'll have the 35 point/year MacArthur back.
- 1979AD

MacArthur is a "fit" guy. fits in Ottawa. won't produce these numbers in just any situation.

Not really an issue. How about Franson? All the haters still seem to love this guy. He should be available.
- The Law

There isn't much love left for the hippo. He's been fully exposed not playing 3rd pair minutes against 3rd and 4th liners. 90% of us see the real Hippo.

5th best in a 48 game season where they did not play the superior West conference.

you see where there is a major flaw in your analysis. Advanced stats told us that in a larger sample size the leafs would not be very good.

the stats also told us the leafs had one of the highest shooting % and PDO ever, something that has been shown you cant count on a repeatable, its likley to regress and it has.

Nonis did what you did and made the team worse and put them in cap trouble.
- senstroll

that doesn't mean anything. every team in the East is scheduled for their beatings against the West.

e.f.f.o.r.t.
- Feeling Glucky?

Appears so ...so why no effort?

gotta play close games for those tensions to boil over. Leafs have had too many games where they've been rocked.
- DoubleDown

The best example is when the habs lost 6-0 or something against the Leafs.

The game was already out of hand for Montreal and the habs players were frustrated... fights ensued.


It also illustrates that Montreal didn't lose that game because the Leafs were so tough. They lost because the Leafs had a big lead, nothing more. Proof of that? Montreal won the next game 5-2 or something like that.

Fighting doesn't scare any team or even "change momentum" as some like to pretend.

oh ffs.

opposition coach pre game:

"anyone who fights these apes is getting their ass stapled to the bench and will be out of the lineup next game"

end of story.

carlyle is a relic.
- Dozzer

No. The reason coaches send guys out to fight, is because they see their team's energy dropping, and they count on the fight to get guys going. Problem is, our 4th line isn't doing it's job. Not pummeling other teams, not forcing them to keep their heads up, and make snap decisions, not pissing them off. I liked last year's 4th line because they were actually in the games, not contributing on the scoreboard, but bringing a strong physical presence and being defensively responsible.

This year, they're invisible. Seriously, only 4th line moment I can remember is Orr trying to be a skill player and rush the net a few games ago.

The years the Leafs truly blew, they got lots of shots on net.
- Feeling Glucky?

We refer to that as the Jason Blake era.