Im not ignorant I just rely on wins and losses, and well with 4 regulation wins in 31 games, its safe to say we're a bad team lol
- Bigzby

The problem is if Nonie and Claudie had this information last season and used it they would know the leafs were not a very good team. Instead they "watched" the team make the playoffs in a 48 game season and in turn made very poor roster decisions, Mac, Grabo, Clarkson etc.. since we knew that last season, we dont have to wait 45 games to look at the wins and loses to tell is the leafs are not a fundamentally good team.

ok. well i guess teams decided to stop fighting Orr and McLaren then. it's a pretty east strategy to employ. that's why brawlers need to be able to skate a regular shift or they become useless.
- DoubleDown

The other side of it, is that you need to give other teams a reason to fight. Gotta make them mad.


Leafs are far too passive for that to happen.

Not from what I saw.
- Woderwick

It would be interesting to see what the hit count would had been like back in the day when there was actual hits in a game.

Awesome ...as a general rule. Did you watch the Leafs play last year? If you did you'd agree that Kessel et al. played a more confident game. In fact it helps support the idea of how they were able to 'fool' Corsi over the short term last year.
- The Law

It also doesn't compare numbers where teams don't fight when down a goal or even address if the team that fought won the game in the end? It really is an incomplete work. Anyone who actually watches hockey knows that a big hit or a fight can change/energize a team. Maybe it doesn't always translate into the "next goal" but that isn't the point.

I totally forgot Ontario had another team.
- 1979AD

ya, a bunch of leaf fans and habs fans got together and wanted to add a few extra home games to the sched so they put one in the middle.

Does anyone think the Leafs can get fair value for Kadri and/or Gardiner with how Carlyle has painted them in the media

Pretty hard to believe that Nonis could get significant returns for either guy

Gardiner's value was so high 2 years ago - untouchable and now not so much

The other side of it, is that you need to give other teams a reason to fight. Gotta make them mad.


Leafs are far too passive for that to happen.
- Feeling Glucky?

gotta play close games for those tensions to boil over. Leafs have had too many games where they've been rocked.

ya, a bunch of leaf fans and habs fans got together and wanted to add a few extra home games to the sched so they put one in the middle.
- MetroidPrime

The other side of it, is that you need to give other teams a reason to fight. Gotta make them mad.


Leafs are far too passive for that to happen.
- Feeling Glucky?

oh ffs.

opposition coach pre game:

"anyone who fights these apes is getting their ass stapled to the bench and will be out of the lineup next game"

end of story.

carlyle is a relic.

Well, actually, no...

http://nhlnumbers.com/201...impact-on-future-outcomes
- Stringer74

Also, just so you're not so naïve next time, that "study" measured goal scoring after winning a fight. That's not at all what I was suggesting. Their overall play improved. Measure just the Leafs 2013' season ...place it on a colourful graph and you'll quickly see that. Or simply read comments from Lucic, Chara etc.. about the how the Leafs were a more difficult team to play against last year than in years past. This year they look more like the 2010 Leafs.

The problem is if Nonie and Claudie had this information last season and used it they would know the leafs were not a very good team. Instead they "watched" the team make the playoffs in a 48 game season and in turn made very poor roster decisions, Mac, Grabo, Clarkson etc.. since we knew that last season, we dont have to wait 45 games to look at the wins and loses to tell is the leafs are not a fundamentally good team.
- senstroll

Skill's there. Mac and Grabo were garbage last year, and the team was still good.

They're just not getting their asses into it.


It's like they got so full of themselves after last year, and with their success to start this one, that they just figured they didn't need to try.

The problem is if Nonie and Claudie had this information last season and used it they would know the leafs were not a very good team. Instead they "watched" the team make the playoffs in a 48 game season and in turn made very poor roster decisions, Mac, Grabo, Clarkson etc.. since we knew that last season, we dont have to wait 45 games to look at the wins and loses to tell is the leafs are not a fundamentally good team.
- senstroll

I disagree, last year we were the 5th best team in the Eastern Conference.

This year we are currently the 9th best team in the conference.

There is no guarantee that if you shoot more you win more.

The problem is if Nonie and Claudie had this information last season and used it they would know the leafs were not a very good team. Instead they "watched" the team make the playoffs in a 48 game season and in turn made very poor roster decisions, Mac, Grabo, Clarkson etc.. since we knew that last season, we dont have to wait 45 games to look at the wins and loses to tell is the leafs are not a fundamentally good team.
- senstroll

MacArthur is having a great first season with his new team. We saw this before. I predict this causes the Sens to re-sign him at too much money and they'll have the 35 point/year MacArthur back.

Does anyone think the Leafs can get fair value for Kadri and/or Gardiner with how Carlyle has painted them in the media

Pretty hard to believe that Nonis could get significant returns for either guy

Gardiner's value was so high 2 years ago - untouchable and now not so much
- MTL1

Luckily, neither are going to be traded.

Thanks for coming out.

oh ffs.

opposition coach pre game:

"anyone who fights these apes is getting their ass stapled to the bench and will be out of the lineup next game"

end of story.

carlyle is a relic.
- Dozzer

Did Calyle's Ducks team have a line of goons? He had Parros, did he have anyone else?

That's not what Corsi tracks, Skippy.
- Atomic Wedgie

Oh, you thought that SOG differentials would make Leafs look a bit better? You're adorable.

Does anyone think the Leafs can get fair value for Kadri and/or Gardiner with how Carlyle has painted them in the media

Pretty hard to believe that Nonis could get significant returns for either guy

Gardiner's value was so high 2 years ago - untouchable and now not so much
- MTL1

those are 2 players the leafs should not look at trading now
what would be the point now?

ok. well i guess teams decided to stop fighting Orr and McLaren then. it's a pretty east strategy to employ. that's why brawlers need to be able to skate a regular shift or they become useless.
- DoubleDown

Absolutely.

ok. well i guess teams decided to stop fighting Orr and McLaren then. it's a pretty east strategy to employ. that's why brawlers need to be able to skate a regular shift or they become useless.
- DoubleDown

One trick pony ....and the pony is dead.

gotta play close games for those tensions to boil over. Leafs have had too many games where they've been rocked.
- DoubleDown

This is also true.

oh ffs.

opposition coach pre game:

"anyone who fights these apes is getting their ass stapled to the bench and will be out of the lineup next game"

end of story.

carlyle is a relic.
- Dozzer

So who do you propose? Guy Boucher?

Why not? We can rotate coaches until it works! Use that stupid amount of cash flow somewhere.

Skill's there. Mac and Grabo were garbage last year, and the team was still good.

They're just not getting their asses into it.


It's like they got so full of themselves after last year, and with their success to start this one, that they just figured they didn't need to try.
- Feeling Glucky?

I miss Grabbo's skating a lot. He really could get the team moving through the middle of the ice.

Clarkson is so bad I can't take it anymore. He's played two good games all year.
I do not understand how Underhill said he was a good skater.

I disagree, last year we were the 5th best team in the Eastern Conference.

This year we are currently the 9th best team in the conference.

There is no guarantee that if you shoot more you win more.
- Bigzby

The years the Leafs truly blew, they got lots of shots on net.

They 'fooled Corsi' by consistently creating and finishing odd man rushes. The ratio of true scoring chances to corsi inflating Jason Blake shots was much higher.
- 1979AD

Wait a second ...that's not fooling ...that's a system. Playing a counter-attack style that focuses on high quality chances (odd man rushes with your skill players). If that was true than sign me up.

The question is why isn't that working this year?

Did Calyle's Ducks team have a line of goons? He had Parros, did he have anyone else?
- 2gals1dane

Didn't need goons.

He had players that would hit and could play a real shift in Pronger and Getzlaf.