But there's multiple ways to skin a cat in this sport -- the draft-and-develop mentality only sounds good when it works....but it doesn't just as many times as it does, if not more.

Edmonton, Florida, the Isles back in last place in the division, Columbus...what's draft-and-develop ever gotten them?

If you say that doing it the way we've always done it hasn't won the Flyers a Stanley Cup, then I'll acknowledge that with grace. Because that is the truth.

But it was Eric Desjardins and John LeClair who came in and helped the Flyers get to the Cup finals in 1997, not some guys we drafted. It was Chris Pronger who helped us get there in 2010, with Coburn and Timonen and Meszaros and Sean O'Donnell -- not a single guy they drafted.

Draft-and-develop sounds great when you win. But it doesn't mean you will.
- AllInForFlyers

We didn't draft Mason or Coburn, though. LeClair was a similar case.

My point is, if we're talking about making a major deal, I'd hope it would be youngsters for youngsters, or picks for youngsters, instead of throwing together another Pronger-esque package for a has-been or a guy who doesn't really fill the entirety of the need.

That's the problem, his coaching staff isn't doing that.

Byfuglien does indeed draw the toughest matchups of any Jets defenseman, based on Corsi QOC, along with Tobias Enstrom. He's also right near 50% in O-zone starts, so he's not exactly being sheltered and given mostly offensive zone chances.
- Jsaquella

link?

Read matches up against the other team's top lines and faces several unfavorable situations. Hartnell is put in more favorable situations.

Byfuglien is not Winnipeg's shutdown guy. Bogo is.
- PhillySportsGuy

Looking at the stats, Byfuglien's QOC is equal to or greater than Bogo's across the board using Corsi and Fenwick

link?
- PhillySportsGuy

http://www.extraskater.co...wpg&min_gp=1&sort=tottm_f

http://www.behindthenet.c...+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

We didn't draft Mason or Coburn, though. LeClair was a similar case.

My point is, if we're talking about making a major deal, I'd hope it would be youngsters for youngsters, or picks for youngsters, instead of throwing together another Pronger-esque package for a has-been or a guy who doesn't really fill the entirety of the need.
- Tomahawk

They can not afford another "Pronger-type" deal. If they get a defenseman, it has to be somebody under 30, who can reasonably be expected to play for another 4-5 years at a high level.

We didn't draft Mason or Coburn, though. LeClair was a similar case.

My point is, if we're talking about making a major deal, I'd hope it would be youngsters for youngsters, or picks for youngsters, instead of throwing together another Pronger-esque package for a has-been or a guy who doesn't really fill the entirety of the need.
- Tomahawk

Do I want to do a Pronger-esque package? No, I do not. There is no Chris Pronger out there, anymore. And the Flyers should not pay that kind of price.

But guys like Yandle and Byfuglien are under 30 and under contract. I don't know what they want. There's a price that you don't pay.

But I wouldn't not trade Scott Laughton and the 2014 first and a roster forward for a better defenseman between 28-32 years old just because that price is steep and the Flyers' assets would be young.

http://www.extraskater.com/players/qual_comp?team=wpg&min_gp=1&sort=tottm_f

http://www.behindthenet.c...+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#
- Jsaquella

From the numbers, Byfuglien has gotten a little unlucky with poor goaltending when he's on the ice. He, also, does match ups against top lines, but not at a much higher rate than the others.

Overall, he's not as bad as his -16, but he's certainly not good.

Going to bed. To Be Continued tomorrow.

My question to anybody who cares to answer:

Do you think, based on the Flyers' play over the last six weeks, that they could win the Eastern Conference with the roster they have right now?

From the numbers, Byfuglien has gotten a little unlucky with poor goaltending when he's on the ice. He, also, does match ups against top lines, but not at a much higher rate than the others.

Overall, he's not as bad as his -16, but he's certainly not good.
- PhillySportsGuy

No, it's not good. He's not a good defensive player, at all.

And, no he's not the shutdown guy, but he does not get shielded in any way shape or form by his coaches.

The problem is, he's on a bad defensive team, with an awful goalie that's run by a coach who seems to be in way over his head. Those factors really hurt the perception of Byfuglien. It's really a perfect storm of crap for him.

I think he's a good player, whose abilities outweigh the risks. But he's got to be put in a better situation, because the team he is on is bad, and getting worse. The coach is now basically in "Save My Ass" mode, and trying anything.

Do I want to do a Pronger-esque package? No, I do not. There is no Chris Pronger out there, anymore. And the Flyers should not pay that kind of price.

But guys like Yandle and Byfuglien are under 30 and under contract. I don't know what they want. There's a price that you don't pay.

But I wouldn't not trade Scott Laughton and the 2014 first and a roster forward for a better defenseman between 28-32 years old just because that price is steep and the Flyers' assets would be young.
- AllInForFlyers

I'd trade any pick/prospect/player off this team if it would net a young, #1 D who would be here for years, like Pietrangelo or Jones.

Unfortunately, that player isn't available and Yandle and Buf are poor analogs.

My question to anybody who cares to answer:

Do you think, based on the Flyers' play over the last six weeks, that they could win the Eastern Conference with the roster they have right now?
- AllInForFlyers

do you mean regular season or playoffs? if you mean regular seaoson, no. even the roster was truly cup caliber, i don't think they'd make up that much ground against pittsburgh. where they are is miraculous given the start they had.

Oh man... I'm that guy that can't turn or stop! Never seen a youtube clip so dead on before.
- Flyersgod

There's like 2 deadbeats on my squad that NEVER have sock tape. Ever. They always find me.

My question to anybody who cares to answer:

Do you think, based on the Flyers' play over the last six weeks, that they could win the Eastern Conference with the roster they have right now?
- AllInForFlyers

Yes, but it will take a quite a bit of luck. They'd need something similar to 2010, where they got a favorable match up in round 1, had a huge rallying point in round two, and then got to face an outgunned team that killed off a couple of big dogs with a hot goalie starting to cool off in round three.

That said, the teams that would really worry me would be Boston, Montreal, Detroit, Washington & Pittsburgh.

http://www.extraskater.com/players/qual_comp?team=wpg&min_gp=1&sort=tottm_f

http://www.behindthenet.c...+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#
- Jsaquella

Jeeze.. I could barely find Claude Giroux on the overall list... maybe that's what team Canada used, haha.

do you mean regular season or playoffs? if you mean regular seaoson, no. even the roster was truly cup caliber, i don't think they'd make up that much ground against pittsburgh. where they are is miraculous given the start they had.
- hammarby31

No, I mean playoffs.

I ask because I think they could win the Eastern Conference if they add a defenseman and maybe an insurance scoring forward with a bit of size, just in case Michael Raffl fades over the second half of the season.

But maybe I'm looking at this team differently than others, and it's healthy to ask other people's opinions sometimes.

Jeeze.. I can barely find Claude Giroux on the list... maybe that's what team Canada used, haha.
- mikel33

Those are both links to the Jets stats, so if you find Claude Giroux on them, it'd be a (frank)ing miracle.

But it terms of those stats, Read and Couturier face the highest level of competition among Flyers forwards, followed by Downie and Giroux.

I'd trade any pick/prospect/player off this team if it would net a young, #1 D who would be here for years, like Pietrangelo or Jones.

Unfortunately, that player isn't available and Yandle and Buf are poor analogs.
- Tomahawk

But we don't have Pietrangelo or Jones in the system, and we're not bad enough to draft those guys -- what are we supposed to do when the playoffs roll around in a few months?

The answer can't be "go with what we have," because we won't have Pietrangelo or Jones next year, either.

But we don't have Pietrangelo or Jones in the system, and we're not bad enough to draft those guys -- what are we supposed to do when the playoffs roll around in a few months?

The answer can't be "go with what we have," because we won't have Pietrangelo or Jones next year, either.
- AllInForFlyers

Is the window for this team closing or something? Why the emphasis on this year?

No, I mean playoffs.

I ask because I think they could win the Eastern Conference if they add a defenseman and maybe an insurance scoring forward with a bit of size, just in case Michael Raffl fades over the second half of the season.

But maybe I'm looking at this team differently than others, and it's healthy to ask other people's opinions sometimes.
- AllInForFlyers

sure, it's possible. get in, and anything can happen. half a season between now and the end. injuries, trades....who knows. if mason plays as he has been, that's a pretty big equalizer.

Is the window for this team closing or something? Why the emphasis on this year?
- Tomahawk

I'm looking for now and the near term future. Not that the window is closing, but the superstar player is 25 years old. He's entering his prime. Kind of hard to sit back and watch him go through it with out having more than average transitional guys on the blue line.

Those are both links to the Jets stats, so if you find Claude Giroux on them, it'd be a (frank)ing miracle.

But it terms of those stats, Read and Couturier face the highest level of competition among Flyers forwards, followed by Downie and Giroux.
- Jsaquella

I was looking at overall (all teams).

Is the window for this team closing or something? Why the emphasis on this year?
- Tomahawk

If you're healthy now, how does anyone know if the window gets any wider than it would be this year, considering other teams will be doing exactly what the Flyers will be doing: looking to get better in the offseason?

Timonen's gone after this year. Streit's 35. Coburn and Grossmann are at good ages, but every year you don't win is a year they get older.

With no guarantee that Claude Giroux doesn't sustain three concussions in 2015 and you get beat, or Jakub Voracek breaks an arm in 2016 and you get beat, or Sean Couturier tears an ACL in 2017 and you get beat...and then what?

Now vs. tomorrow is always relative. You can't control either.

If you're good enough to win it in 2014 with a little help, then that's as good as projecting that you're going to win it in 2016 -- because you have no way of knowing if Brayden Schenn's going to take a stick in the eye and not be available in 2016, and you get beat.

I was looking at overall (all teams).
- mikel33

My bad.

Yes. His Corsi QOC has him in the 145 range league wide. Which is still higher than a lot of star offensive players, such as Patrick Kane.

If you're healthy now, how does anyone know if the window gets any wider than it would be this year, considering other teams will be doing exactly what the Flyers will be doing: looking to get better in the offseason?

Timonen's gone after this year. Streit's 35. Coburn and Grossmann are at good ages, but every year you don't win is a year they get older.

With no guarantee that Claude Giroux doesn't sustain three concussions in 2015 and you get beat, or Jakub Voracek breaks an arm in 2016 and you get beat, or Sean Couturier tears an ACL in 2017 and you get beat...and then what?

Now vs. tomorrow is always relative. You can't control either.

If you're good enough to win it in 2014 with a little help, then that's as good as projecting that you're going to win it in 2016 -- because you have no way of knowing if Brayden Schenn's going to take a stick in the eye and not be available in 2016, and you get beat.
- AllInForFlyers

Underlying possession numbers from this last little run haven't been great... and it's unlikely that Hartsy/Schenn/Simmonds will stay hot for much longer. And, as you mentioned, the stars have been relatively healthy... can't bank on that either. Mason's probably due for a bit more regression, too.

I don't think this team is bad, but I also don't believe they're anywhere close to being at that 'one piece away' stage, either. That hopeless/clueless group we saw at the beginning of the season still rears it's head from time to time.

Underlying possession numbers from this last little run haven't been great... and it's unlikely that Hartsy/Schenn/Simmonds will stay hot for much longer. And, as you mentioned, the stars have been relatively healthy... can't bank on that either. Mason's probably due for a bit more regression, too.

I don't think this team is bad, but I also don't believe they're anywhere close to being at that 'one piece away' stage, either. That hopeless/clueless group we saw at the beginning of the season still rears it's head from time to time.
- Tomahawk

why do you say mason's due? goalies can go through a season pretty much hot from start to finish. season is half over, and aside from a little blip, he's been the most consistent, top performing player. now that the team has come around as a whole, i see even less "reason" for him to regress.