I don't think he would help enough to offset what the Jets would want for him.

Byfuglien has been on the Jets for a while now. They have tried several things with him. I don't know what makes you think he will come here and Berube will control his faults while not hurting his greatest assets. The reason Byfuglien scores so much is because he sacrifices offense for defense.
- PhillySportsGuy

He's played almost solely on defense since he left Chicago. On occasion he's been used as a big body in front of the net on the PP, but he's played 95% of the time as a defenseman the last 4 years.

I don't think that Berube will eliminate his faults, but I do think he will mitigate them. Look at Streit's play over the past few weeks. He's been markedly better than he was early on.

The other issue that you're ignoring is just how awful the Jets goaltending is. His defensive performance-statistically-suffers because Pavelec is as apt to give up 4 goals in a period as he is to make 4 saves.

It also discounts just how badly the Jets are coached and managed. When's the last time you heard a NHL team say to the media after a game that the other team had no clue what they were trying to do out there?

Baby Schenn or Couturier won't be here if we trade for Byfuglien, Yandle or any high scoring defenseman.
- PhillySportsGuy

Then move Laughton and the 2014 first and Ghost and whoever the hell else you have to -- I wouldn't have believed it six weeks ago, but if you look at the Flyers right now...

Man. I watch a lot of hockey, and I'm just saying that in a seven-game set right now, the Flyers are right there with ANYBODY in the Eastern Conference, and all but the top 3 or 4 teams in the West.

They've been putting the hammer down, getting better. They have some flaws, but the Flyers are truly getting better.

Baby Schenn or Couturier won't be here if we trade for Byfuglien, Yandle or any high scoring defenseman.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'd trade Schenn for Yandle right now. I'd seriously consider it for Byfuglien. For the latter, I'd probably need to make it a bigger deal, where the Flyers would send a defenseman to WPG & get back a winger, but yeah, I'd consider it.

And I don't trade Schenn lightly.

He's played almost solely on defense since he left Chicago. On occasion he's been used as a big body in front of the net on the PP, but he's played 95% of the time as a defenseman the last 4 years.

I don't think that Berube will eliminate his faults, but I do think he will mitigate them. Look at Streit's play over the past few weeks. He's been markedly better than he was early on.

The other issue that you're ignoring is just how awful the Jets goaltending is. His defensive performance-statistically-suffers because Pavelec is as apt to give up 4 goals in a period as he is to make 4 saves.

It also discounts just how badly the Jets are coached and managed. When's the last time you heard a NHL team say to the media after a game that the other team had no clue what they were trying to do out there?
- Jsaquella

I'm talking more about Byfuglien jumping into plays when he should sag back. He just really worries me. I feel like the team will go with Byfuglien. If he's playing well, the team will play well. If he's struggling, the team will struggle. I would rather have some consistency. Byfuglien is too much of a risk to me.

I'd trade Schenn for Yandle right now. I'd seriously consider it for Byfuglien. For the latter, I'd probably need to make it a bigger deal, where the Flyers would send a defenseman to WPG & get back a winger, but yeah, I'd consider it.

And I don't trade Schenn lightly.
- Jsaquella

I would trade Schenn for Yandle. Not Byfuglien.

Then move Laughton and the 2014 first and Ghost and whoever the hell else you have to -- I wouldn't have believed it six weeks ago, but if you look at the Flyers right now...

Man. I watch a lot of hockey, and I'm just saying that in a seven-game set right now, the Flyers are right there with ANYBODY in the Eastern Conference, and all but the top 3 or 4 teams in the West.

They've been putting the hammer down, getting better. They have some flaws, but the Flyers are truly getting better.
- AllInForFlyers

This kind of thinking is how we got into this problem. While other teams are developing young defenseman, we're trading them or not drafting them at all!

I'd trade Schenn for Yandle right now. I'd seriously consider it for Byfuglien. For the latter, I'd probably need to make it a bigger deal, where the Flyers would send a defenseman to WPG & get back a winger, but yeah, I'd consider it.

And I don't trade Schenn lightly.
- Jsaquella

I think you can win a Stanley Cup with pairings of:

Coburn-Timonen
Grossmann-Streit
Yandle-Schenn

I think it wouldn't be easy, but I think it could be done.

I'm talking more about Byfuglien jumping into plays when he should sag back. He just really worries me. I feel like the team will go with Byfuglien. If he's playing well, the team will play well. If he's struggling, the team will struggle. I would rather have some consistency. Byfuglien is too much of a risk to me.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think it's more of a risk to count on Grossmann to play top pair minutes. He's capable in his own end, but when he makes a good play with the puck, it's almost an event.

And as much praise as he gets, Grossmann is far from perfect. I've seen him lose coverage and leave a guy open for a goal, or go down to block a shot or pass unnecessarily and have it hit off him and go into the net, or have a bad turnover or unforced icing that leads to a defensive zone draw late in a close game.

I'd rather have a guy who might do that, but who also might get control of a puck in his own end and carry it 175 feet and score a goal than a guy who will get to the red line and dump it in, while 3 forwards are stationary at the blueline

This kind of thinking is how we got into this problem. While other teams are developing young defenseman, we're trading them or not drafting them at all!
- PhillySportsGuy

Yeah, it sucks to move a ton of assets, and yeah, it's why we don't have certain aspects of strength in the system.

But again, at some point, we're gonna need somebody. And Timonen's not going to be here next year.

Streit will only get older. Grossmann plays such a physical style...how long will he hold up?

My point is a simple one: If they keep playing like this, how do you not go for it?

This kind of thinking is how we got into this problem. While other teams are developing young defenseman, we're trading them or not drafting them at all!
- PhillySportsGuy

They have drafted 8 in the last 2 years, and traded for a 9th.

Of the ones they have drafted or added in trade, there's a few very solid ones that look like they could be NHL regulars in the next few years.

The main reason they got in this problem is Pronger got hurt after they traded away a massive pile of assets for him, and then used more assets to fill the hole.

How much more information do you need to make an informed opinion on the content of the article? What the coach had for lunch?

He was told not to run up the score on crappy schools... too spare those kids the embarrassment of realizing how much they suck... and he was fired for it.

It's pretty cut and dry.
- Flyersgod

The coach might not be bitter and lying?

I think it's more of a risk to count on Grossmann to play top pair minutes. He's capable in his own end, but when he makes a good play with the puck, it's almost an event.

And as much praise as he gets, Grossmann is far from perfect. I've seen him lose coverage and leave a guy open for a goal, or go down to block a shot or pass unnecessarily and have it hit off him and go into the net, or have a bad turnover or unforced icing that leads to a defensive zone draw late in a close game.

I'd rather have a guy who might do that, but who also might get control of a puck in his own end and carry it 175 feet and score a goal than a guy who will get to the red line and dump it in, while 3 forwards are stationary at the blueline
- Jsaquella

The bad things you talk about with Grossman happen on a game by game basis with Byfuglien. He gets lost in his own end quite a bit.

I'm not saying I would rather have Grossmann than Byfuglien. I'm saying I'd rather have B. Schenn than Byfuglien.

The bad things you talk about with Grossman happen on a game by game basis with Byfuglien. He gets lost in his own end quite a bit.

I'm not saying I would rather have Grossmann than Byfuglien. I'm saying I'd rather have B. Schenn than Byfuglien.
- PhillySportsGuy

They happen to Grossmann on a game by game basis, too. Byfuglein has the offensive ability to mitigate those flaws.

And yes, I'd rather keep Brayden Schenn. Which is why I mentioned I'd need to have other moving pieces if he was in a deal for Byfuglien.

Yeah, it sucks to move a ton of assets, and yeah, it's why we don't have certain aspects of strength in the system.

But again, at some point, we're gonna need somebody. And Timonen's not going to be here next year.

Streit will only get older. Grossmann plays such a physical style...how long will he hold up?

My point is a simple one: If they keep playing like this, how do you not go for it?
- AllInForFlyers

Because if they go for it and don't win, then you're stuck with a gap in prospects. This will result in the team overpaying in free agency and this time there is no amnesty.

They happen to Grossmann on a game by game basis, too. Byfuglein has the offensive ability to mitigate those flaws.

And yes, I'd rather keep Brayden Schenn. Which is why I mentioned I'd need to have other moving pieces if he was in a deal for Byfuglien.
- Jsaquella

Well that's where I'm at. I don;t want to part with B. Schenn or Couturier for Byfuglien. I doubt the Jets make the deal for a guy like Morin or Laughton.

Because if they go for it and don't win, then you're stuck with a gap in prospects. This will result in the team overpaying in free agency and this time there is no amnesty.
- PhillySportsGuy

There will always be gaps, on every team in the league.

The Pens have been looking for someone to play on Malkin's left side and Crosby's right side for years.

Chicago's been trolling for a No. 2 center for years.

Dougie Hamilton might get there one day, but the Bruins have been getting strafed without Dennis Seidenberg in the lineup WITH Zdeno Chara in the lineup.

Every team in the league has gaps in prospects. Every single one. We just know ours very well, but our system, the way we do it, isn't better or worse than anyone else's -- again, they're on pace for 95-97 points now, and if they get to the playoffs, the Flyers will have proven again that you don't have to draft every single player in your lineup in order to be good.

Well that's where I'm at. I don;t want to part with B. Schenn or Couturier for Byfuglien. I doubt the Jets make the deal for a guy like Morin or Laughton.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm not suggesting trading prospects, I'm suggesting Schenn & Schenn for Byfuglien and, say, Bryan Little or another Jets forward, who could plug in on a wing and fill the gap.

It's not ideal, and again, not my first choice, but I'm also not eager to piss away two or three years of Giroux's prime waiting for kids to develop...and honestly, I doubt that there's a legit number one guy in the group of kids they have in the system now.

I think Morin will be a slightly better, meaner Coburn. Gostisbehere will probably be like Del Zotto. Alt looks like he could possibly be a good two way 2nd pair guy. Same with Hagg.

I don't see a Duncan Keith or Chara.

There will always be gaps, on every team in the league.

The Pens have been looking for someone to play on Malkin's left side and Crosby's right side for years.

Chicago's been trolling for a No. 2 center for years.

Dougie Hamilton might get there one day, but the Bruins have been getting strafed without Dennis Seidenberg in the lineup WITH Zdeno Chara in the lineup.

Every team in the league has gaps in prospects. Every single one. We just know ours very well, but our system, the way we do it, isn't better or worse than anyone else's -- again, they're on pace for 95-97 points now, and if they get to the playoffs, the Flyers will have proven again that you don't have to draft every single player in your lineup in order to be good.
- AllInForFlyers

Malkin has James Neal and Crosby has Kunitz. They seemed to have solved that problem.

And, yes, our prospect pool is one of the worst in the NHL.

Not really, just wondering why people don't feel Byfuglien would be a very good addition to the Flyers.

It reminds me of Jay Bouwmeester. When he was a Flame, most people on this board wouldn't have touched him for anything. He goes to St Louis and people are saying he'd be a great fit.

Byfuglien's strengths are exactly what the Flyers lack on the blueline.
- Jsaquella

To me, it comes down to what the payment would be for him.

It also comes down to the fact that we are winning, our goal differential is down to -2, we've crawled solidly into the playoff hunt, and things are looking pretty good. Does that mean we couldn't make some changes to better the team? Absolutely not. But I don't think giving up a bunch of current or future assets for Buff is the way to push the Flyers to the next level, especially if we're giving up a player like Coburn in the exchange.

I'm not suggesting trading prospects, I'm suggesting Schenn & Schenn for Byfuglien and, say, Bryan Little or another Jets forward, who could plug in on a wing and fill the gap.

It's not ideal, and again, not my first choice, but I'm also not eager to piss away two or three years of Giroux's prime waiting for kids to develop...and honestly, I doubt that there's a legit number one guy in the group of kids they have in the system now.

I think Morin will be a slightly better, meaner Coburn. Gostisbehere will probably be like Del Zotto. Alt looks like he could possibly be a good two way 2nd pair guy. Same with Hagg.

I don't see a Duncan Keith or Chara.
- Jsaquella

I think the difference between me and you is that I don't see Byfuglien as a number 1 guy. I don't see him as the answer to our problems. He doesn't make this team an instant Stanley Cup contender. He makes them more exciting. For more than one reason.

Malkin has James Neal and Crosby has Kunitz. They seemed to have solved that problem.

And, yes, our prospect pool is one of the worst in the NHL.
- PhillySportsGuy

They didn't draft Neal or Kunitz. They traded for them.

The guys they've traded for, the Pascal Dupuis of the world, have been better for them than their picks -- Crosby and Malkin are generational talents, and were drafted accordingly.

But you don't get those guys where the Flyers are going to draft, and just because you draft them doesn't mean you'll win with them.

Boston's defense when they won the Cup didn't have a single drafted player from their organization in it.

Yeah, it sucks to move a ton of assets, and yeah, it's why we don't have certain aspects of strength in the system.

But again, at some point, we're gonna need somebody. And Timonen's not going to be here next year.

Streit will only get older. Grossmann plays such a physical style...how long will he hold up?

My point is a simple one: If they keep playing like this, how do you not go for it?
- AllInForFlyers

If we're giving up a ton of assets for an offensive defenseman with some baggage, I'm going after PK Subban. Dude is leading his team in points, is 14th in d-men in toi (even with his coach sitting him from time to time), he's 4th among d-men in points, and he's +13 to Buff's -16.

To me, it comes down to what the payment would be for him.

It also comes down to the fact that we are winning, our goal differential is down to -2, we've crawled solidly into the playoff hunt, and things are looking pretty good. Does that mean we couldn't make some changes to better the team? Absolutely not. But I don't think giving up a bunch of current or future assets for Buff is the way to push the Flyers to the next level, especially if we're giving up a player like Coburn in the exchange.
- wolfhounds

I haven't suggested trading Coburn at all, and I agree wholeheartedly that they need to make sure the price paid is an acceptable one.

The thing is, the Flyers have forward depth. They can spare a forward to add a vital need on the blue line. They are playing well right now. They can be playing better, and a better transitional defenseman will help, greatly.

As I have said, Byfuglien isn't my top choice. I just don't get why so many people seem to hate him.

My first choice would be to go after Christian Erhoff. Second would be Yandle. My third choice would be to target a kid like Rundblad, Gormley or Erixon. Fourth choice would be a guy like Byfuglien

They didn't draft Neal or Kunitz. They traded for them.

The guys they've traded for, the Pascal Dupuis of the world, have been better for them than their picks -- Crosby and Malkin are generational talents, and were drafted accordingly.

But you don't get those guys where the Flyers are going to draft, and just because you draft them doesn't mean you'll win with them.

Boston's defense when they won the Cup didn't have a single drafted player from their organization in it.
- AllInForFlyers

They traded for those guys because they have a non-stop supply of young, puck moving defenseman that keep coming through the system.

The Flyers don't have that.

If we're giving up a ton of assets for an offensive defenseman with some baggage, I'm going after PK Subban. Dude is leading his team in points, is 14th in d-men in toi (even with his coach sitting him from time to time), he's 4th among d-men in points, and he's +13 to Buff's -16.
- wolfhounds

That's swell, except you're not getting PK Subban.

And let's face it, the +13 is playing in front of Carey Price and the -16 is playing in front of Red Light Pavelec